AOH :: FF.TXT Time Dilation Experiments

___________________________________________________________________________
|  From           : KeelyNet BBS     |  DataLine        : (214) 324-3501  |
|  Sysop          : Jerry W. Decker  |  Voice           : (214) 324-8741  |
|  Co-Sysop       : Ronald Barker    |  Voice           : (214) 242-9346  |
|  File Name      : FF.ASC           |  Online Date     : 05/22/94        |
|  Contributed by : Bert Pool        |  Dir Category    : ENERGY          |
|          KeelyNet * PO BOX 1031 * Mesquite, Texas * USA * 75149         |
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The following is a compilation of messages regarding electrical energy, the
TOD circuit, Bert  Pool's  FIREFLY circuit and other related material.  The
file continues as FF1.ASC, etc. as the messages grow.
===========================================================================
Message 4141                                   DATE/TIME: 01/08/94 19:53
From   : BERT POOL                          -- RECEIVED --
To     : BILL BEATY
Subject: (R) Time Dialation Experiments
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

Bill, your suggestion for using two heterodyning oscillators is a good one.
I may work on just such a device soon.   Right now, I am preparing to prove
to myself that electric current actually flows from negative to positive in
an electric circuit, and also to measure the actual speed of propagation of
this current through  a  copper conductor.  I will use a  conductor  10,000
feet long to perform this measurement.

Question:  If you  take  a 10,000 ft.  long conductor and place an LED at a
position 3,000 ft down the negative lead,  one  at 5,000 ft. and a third at
7,500 ft., and connect a battery will:

(a) the LEDS will light sequentially, negative to positive
(b) the LEDS will light simultaneously
(c) the LEDS will light sequentially, positive to negative?

The LED's, by the way, are in SERIES so that current has  to  flow  through
all three to  return  to  the  battery.   The  real interesting part of the
experiment will follow this measurement.   I  calculate that a pulse cannot
take less than 10.17 microseconds to travel the 10,000  ft.  path, negative
to positive on  the  battery.   If  I connect the battery to the wire for 1
microsecond then disconnect it (i.e.,  a  very  short  pulse), will the LED
light up for 1 microsecond?

Think carefully!  Because  by  the  time the pulse gets  to  the  LED,  the
battery is NO  LONGER  CONNECTED  to  the  battery.   If the battery is not
connected to the  wire,  how  can  current   flow  through  the  LED?   I'm
interested in what your guess is on all this, and anyone  else's  ideas are
welcome as well.
===========================================================================
Message 4164                                   DATE/TIME: 01/09/94 16:30
From   : BILL BEATY                         -- RECEIVED --
To     : BERT POOL
Subject: (R) Time Dialation Experiments
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

Re: Speed of electricity.
I must apologize  for  being longwinded in the following, but you've got me
started!
.
When I had to design a museum exhibit on electricitiy physics, I had to re-
teach myself how electricity really  works,  having  been  mis-educated  by
misconception-ridden american textbooks.  It turns out batteries and

Page 1

generators do not supply electricity, they merely pump it.

All wires, in  fact  all  metals,  are already full of electricity. You may
recall from some science class that metals  contain  a  "sea of electrons."
This "sea" is what moves when electric current exists in a wire.  This fact
is of prime importance when one is thinking about what goes on in circuits.
Also, electron flows happen very very slowly, on the order  of  inches  per
hour depending on the current.

In an AC  system,  the  electrons  sit in place and wiggle, and do not flow
forward at all.  So, it's not the ELECTRICITY  which  travels  fast  within
wires, it's the  WAVES of starting and stopping that move  fast,  it's  the
energy which moves fast.

Electrical energy flows  and  electrical  signals are longitudinal waves of
electron compression and rarefaction  supported  by electrostatic repulsion
between masses of electrons confined within a wire.
.
Now on to your experiment: If you suddenly connect BOTH leads of a battery
to a very  long  circle  of  wire  hanging  in air, the battery  will  pull
electrons into its positive terminal while it also pushes electrons out its
negative one. This  sends  a  speed-of-light wave out both terminals of the
battery. The wave is a compression wave  on  the  negative  terminal, and a
rarefaction wave on the positive.

As these waves  get to successive LEDs in the circuit,  they  will  be  lit
sequentially.  I predict  that  the 7500-ft LED will light first (it's only
2500ft. from the end), followed by the  3000-ft LED, followed by the 5000ft
one.
.
What happens if you remove the battery before the wave gets to the LEDs?

I predict that removing the battery will send a second wave  of ceasing-of-
motion out thru  the wire, and the LEDs will darken in the same sequence in
which they were lit.  Connecting the  battery  for 1.0 uSec will send a 1.0
uSec pulse to the LEDs. I'm envisioning an acoustic analogy here.

If you shout down a very long hose, then suddenly remove  your  mouth,  the
sound that's already  in  the  hose will keep going to the end whether your
mouth is there or not.
.
One thing to think about: if you do the experiment on a wire spool rather
than on an immense circle of wire, I don't think the waves of compression\
rarefaction will stay on one wire and spiral their way through the entire
length of the  coil.   Instead,  voltage  and  current  in  one  wire  will
wavefronts will skip across the coil and act as if they are moving much
faster than the speed of light.  Each turn of the coil acts like a trans-
former winding for all the other turns.  You either have to spread your
wire out in a big field, or use coax cable so adjacent turns are shielded.

Also, are you going to switch BOTH battery connections on and off? If you
connect the two terminals to the wire at two different times, your results
would be different.
.
Have you heard about the experiments done in 1902 or so which showed that
the mobile electricity within copper is electrons.  Researchers wound a big
spool of wire on a wheel, connected the ends to a meter through  sliprings,
spun the wheel a high speeds, then stopped it suddenly.

Page 2

The sudden halt  in  the  wire's  motion did not jerk the electricity to as
sudden a stop, and a pulse of current was measured in the meter.  It was a
negative current in the direction of  the  wire's  motion.  I don't know if
they tried this  on  many  different metals.  It is vaguely  remenicent  of
Searle's original attempt to make a generator by throwing electrons off the
edge of a spinning disk.
.
I must point  out  that  all  of  the  above  is based upon my knowledge of
conventional circuit physics. It's  never  occurred  to  me  to  try  doing
experiments like these.  I'd love to hear what happens.   You're aware that
Joe Newman's motor  designs  are  based upon pulses racing around in coils?
It's work like yours which has a chance of showing up anomolies and opening
the door to really interesting lines of research.
===========================================================================
Message 4174                                   DATE/TIME: 01/10/94 11:14
From   : BERT POOL                          -- RECEIVED --
To     : BILL BEATY
Subject: Direction and speed of electrical curren
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

Bill, I really appreciate your feedback  on  the experiment on transmitting
pulses through wire.   Discussion like this helps generate  new  ideas  and
.
On your comment  that  a  battery sends a compression wave OUT the negative
terminal and a rarefacation wave OUT  the  positive, at the speed of light:
If we place an LED twice as close to the positive terminal as the negative;
lets say this is 6000 ft from negative, 3000 ft from positive,  and connect
both terminals of  the  battery  to the wire, which wave will reach the LED
first, the compression or the rarefaction?  Since  BOTH waves are traveling
at 'c', it is obvious that the rarefaction wave from the positive pole will
"pull" electrons through  the  LED  long  before the compression  wave  can
"push" them through.
.
The LED should  be  lit by the rarefaction wave several microseconds before
the compression wave gets there.  In  fact,  using  this  analogy,  the LED
should light up  TWICE - once when the rarefaction wave  "pulls"  electrons
through the LED  and  a second time when the compression wave "pushes" more
electrons through the LED. Normally  these  two  events  would  be so close
together that the phenomenon would never be seen - unless  you were looking
for it! (and believe me, I intend to look!).
.
Using your water hose analogy, if we take a long garden hose and at the 2/3
length position place  a  "paddle"  wheel to indicate air movement and have
one person blow on the long end (compression) and another suck on the short
end of the hose (rarefaction), the paddle  wheel  should  move  twice.  The
rarefaction wave will  reach  the  paddle  wheel  first,   moving  it,  and
logically, a short  time  later  the  compression  wave will move the wheel
again.
.
That is, of course, unless the rarefaction  wave,  upon  passing the paddle
wheel, reaches the compression wave at the MIDDLE of the  hose, and cancels
it. (Both waves  are  traveling at the same speed and so should meet at the
middle point of the hose. Compression  and  rarefaction  waves  DO  cancel,
yes?).  Since the  paddle  wheel  was  moved by the rarefaction  wave  long
before the compression  wave  could  ever have arrived, the short length of
time measured for the wheel to move  could  be  wrongly  (?) interpreted as
showing that electric current travels from positive to negative.
.

Page 3

This scenario suggests  that if we take two 5000 ft conductors and place an
LED at the far end (middle), and place another two LEDs, one at each of the
2500 ft marks and connect a battery,  a  compression  wave will travel from
the negative pole of the battery toward the LED on the negative  wire while
a rarefaction wave travels from the positive pole of the battery toward the
LED on the  positive  wire.   Since  both  waves  are traveling at the same
speed, both of these LEDs should light  up  AT  THE SAME TIME, the negative
LED when the compression wave pushes electrons through it, and the positive
LED when the rarefaction wave pulls electrons through it!  And a short time
later BOTH waves will reach the middle LED and light it up last.
.
So, looking at  the gargen hose and wire and using your  classical  theory,
I'm still not  sure  what will REALLY happen. We can put forth at least two
or three conflicting lighting hypothesis based on the same theory.
.
Will the LED's pulse only once or will  they  pulse  twice? Will there be a
sequential lighting, and if so, in what order? Or might  some  of  the LEDs
light simultaneously?  I  had  no  idea  at  the  outset that such a simple
experiment could be SO MUCH FUN!

I am prepared to do this experiment tomorrow, but I'm not about to actually
do it until I get more pre-experiment  guesses from you and the other Keely
Netters. I'd have never thought about a rarefaction wave lighting up an LED
before a compression wave getting there - thanks.
.
By the way  Bill,  you are certainly invited to participate  in  performing
this experiment (hope you are local!).
.
The wire will  not  be  on  a spool when the experiment is conducted - self
inductance and capacitance would skew  the  measurements.   I plan on doing
this out in the country in some deserted field where I  can  unreel  10,000
feet of wire   into  large  loops  with  as  little  self  capacitance  and
inductance as possible.
.
Anyone got a farm field with nearby  power  that  we  can use? (no Norm, we
don't want to do this experiment in the Arkansas outback!)
.
Please re-read all  our messages on this, ruminate a while,  and  get  back
with me later. >> Bert
.
p.s. - anyone  else  out  there got any feedback on this simple experiment?
It may be simple, but there are some  very  important  electric  foundation
pillars being pushed and pulled around here!
.
p.p.s. Jerry, this  discussion  is starting to look like  "file"  material,
yes?

cc: Norman Wootan
===========================================================================
Message 4187                                   DATE/TIME: 01/10/94 16:52
From   : BERT POOL                          -- RECEIVED --
To     : BILL BEATY
Subject: Cease-of-motion wave???
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

.
BB > What happens if you remove the battery before the
BB > wave gets to the LEDs?

Page 4

BB > I predict that removing the battery will send a second
BB > wave of ceasing-of-motion out thru the wire, and the LEDs
BB > will darken in the same sequence in which they were lit.
BB > Connecting the battery for 1.0 uSec will send a 1.0 uSec
BB > pulse to the LEDs. I'm envisioning an acoustic analogy
BB > here. If you shout down a very long hose, then suddenly
BB > remove your mouth, the sound that's already in the hose
BB > will keep going to the end whether your mouth is there or not.
.
Bill, what in  the  heck is a "ceasing-of-motion" wave?  I know this is the
"New Age", so maybe this is a Wave of the New Age?  |:)
.
I was able  to  hang  in  there  with   you   except  for  this.   Maybe  a
clarification?   >> Bert
===========================================================================
Message 4226                                   DATE/TIME: 01/12/94 10:27
From   : BILL BEATY                         -- RECEIVED --
To     : BERT POOL
Subject: (R) Direction and speed of electrical cu
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

I am visualizing for the workings of your experiment.
One detail:
.
> That is, of course, unless the rarefaction wave, upon passing
> the paddle wheel, reaches the compression wave at the MIDDLE of
> the hose, and cancels it. (Both waves are traveling at the same
> speed and so should meet at the middle point of the hose.
> Compression and rarefaction waves DO cancel, yes?).
.
On the above, I would say that the compression and rarefaction  waves would
meet and cancel  MOMENTARILY, but would then continue moving and go through
each other and continue unaffected.   I've  seen  this  happen  with  water
ripples.  I've even  made  it  happen myself when playing  with  pulses  on
hanging ropes and   swinging   chains.    It's  only  when  the  medium  is
"nonlinear" that one wave can alter the  path of another wave's energy.  In
linear media, waves go through each other and come out unaffected.
.
Oh, here's another thing I though of.  The resistance of  a power supply is
very low, so  you  treat  it as a conductor.  So, if you should connect the
battery to the long loop of wire AND  LEAVE  IT  CONNECTED,  the  waves  of
compression and rarefaction should go all the way around  the loop, return,
and PASS THROUGH  THE  BATTERY and go around again.  The LEDs should change
brightness many times  in a resonant  exponential  decay,  as  smaller  and
smaller positive and  negative  current  waves go past them.   The  current
waves would continue forever, but I think the resistance of the LEDs and of
the wire will  make them die off after a few trips.  If the wire resistance
is high enough, the waves might even  be  smeared  out after a single trip.
Something to watch out for.
.
And even if  you  disconnect  the battery a microsecond after  sending  the
pulses, you will  still get multiple pulses at the LEDs because the missing
battery acts as a mismatched impedance  on  your  line,  which causes total
reflection of any waves hitting the end of the wire.  The waves will return
to the battery,  find  it  missing, and so reverse course  and  make  trips
around the loop again backwards.
.
Wasn't there some free-energy invention which used very long lengths of

Page 5

wire lying on the ground?  I think it was powered by a tesla coil, but even
so, you might  get  some  weird results if your experiment interacts in any
way with telluric  currents,  AC  or  DC.   You  might  discover  something
interesting.  Wouldn't it  be  great if you could accidentally  tap  a  few
kilowatts from the ether and blow up your LEDs?  Or you might discover that
you have to  invest  in  10000  feet  of  coaxial cable to get rid of earth
current signals.
.
Also, I wonder   if   Bearden's  "Final   Secret"   stuff   involves   some
instantaneous propagation effects, followed by normal light  speed effects.
The thing where  he  connects  a voltage to an inductor and then removes it
before current starts, doesn't quite  make  sense  if  the  starting of the
current propagates as  a  lightspeed  wave.  Connecting  a  battery  to  an
inductor, for even a brief moment, should in theory send a pulse down the
wire of the  coil.   But  if  instead there was some INSTANTANEOUS wave (of
electrogravity?) which filled the whole  wire,  it might alter the wire and
make it suck ZPE.  If this happens, you should see some waves  on your wire
which go much faster than the speed of light.  Something to watch for!
.
I wonder what  happens  when  you first connect one battery terminal to the
wire loop, THEN connect the other one?  The  wire  will  first  be suddenly
charged up to the voltage of the battery terminal.  As  this  voltage  wave
passes each LED,  if  it  is  high enough, it might make the LED pulse very
breifly.  This would be weird: flashing  the  LEDs  with  only  ONE battery
terminal connected.  I don't know if the other battery  terminal  has to be
connected to earth for this to happen, since it is an electrostatic effect.
You also might  have  to  momentarily  ground your long wire first, to make
sure it's at 0 volts.
.
>By the way Bill, you are certainly invited to participate in
>performing this experiment (hope you are local!).
.
Sorry, I'm not  local,  I'm  Seattle,   WA.   We  used  to  have  a  fringe
science/UFO/Magik/etc. group here  a  couple  of  years  ago,  called  "The
Group," but it  ran  out of steam when the person volunteering his home for
meetings moved out of travel range.  There  still is Dale Travous here with
his 9 ft.  multi 10-KW tesla coil, and Gary Hawkins, who's  30KV  capacitor
bank penny-blasting was featured in EXTRAORDINARY SCIENCES last month.
===========================================================================
Message 4227                                   DATE/TIME: 01/12/94 10:29
From   : BILL BEATY                         -- RECEIVED --
To     : BERT POOL
Subject: (R) Cease-of-motion wave???
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

>Bill, what in the heck is a "ceasing-of-motion" wave?  I know this
>is the "New Age", so maybe this is a Wave of the New Age?  |:)
.
Yes, Glasshoppah, when  ceasing-of-motion wave propagate to the everpresent
"now" of one's position on the worldline,  one  begins  to  smell and is in
.
Sorry ;)
.
That "ceasing of motion" thing is something I started saying  because, when
explaining electricity to  people, I found that most everyone uses the word
"current" to describe  what  flows   in   wires,  rather  than  calling  it
"electricity" or "charge" or electrons.

Page 6

"Current" cannot flow  if  current  IS  a  flow  of something.  In my older
message I almost said that a wave of "current" was going down the wire, but
because of the blurry meaning of the  word,  I instead tried to say it more
accurately.

When you connect a battery to a circuit and wait a while, the whole circuit
ends up with flowing charge.  How did that charge start flowing? Well, when
the wires first touched together, a wave of "starting-of-motion" zipped all
around the circuit, leaving constantly flowing electrons  in its wake. Now,
when you break a closed circuit, THE ELECTRONS STOP WHERE THEY ARE.

And they do the "stopping" one after another in sequence.  And so a wave of
motionlessness, or a  wave  of zero current, or a wave of ceasing-of-motion
of electrons, overtakes each one in  the  circuit  at  the  speed of light,
leaving a lot of motionless electrons at the end.  In your experiment with
the long wire, the compression and rarefaction waves aren't  simply  pulses
of breif movement, because in front of the waves the electrons are stopped,
and behind the waves the electrons are moving.  The waves are leading edges
of a spreading area of movement of charges.
===========================================================================
Message 4287                                   DATE/TIME: 01/14/94 20:45
From   : BILL BEATY
To     : ALL
Subject: Audio phase conj.
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

I don't think  it's  that easy to build an acoustic phase-congugate mirror.
Don't these devices always require some  sort  of  time-reversal, also some
way of recording a two-dimensional pattern?  The simplest  way  I can think
of doing an  acoustic  version is this: Put a few hundred tiny loudspeakers
and microphones in a large grid pattern  with  one speaker adjacent to each
mic.  Wire the  mics  to the inputs of a supertaperecorder  having  several
hundred channels.  Now record some distant sounds. If you now play the tape
back in reverse  so  the  sound  comes  out  of  the speakers backwards and
amplified, the waveforms and phases of  the sounds coming from the speakers
will be such that the grid of speakers will direct powerful  beams of sound
out to each  original  source.   Even with many separate sound sources, the
device will simultaneously send a beam to each one.
.
Here's another idea:  line  a harbor with  numerous  individual  high-speed
water level sensors, and also numerous wave generators (maybe piston-driven
panels or something)   Now make a splash at some particular  place  in  the
harbor, and record  the  waves received on shore.  If you now play back the
received signals into the wave generators,  and  play  them in reverse, you
create a time-reversed contracting ripple pattern that shrinks  down into a
splash.  And with  a  little amplification and processing, you could direct
huge splashs to any point in the harbor.  I've always wanted to do this
in a science museum duck pond, then let  people  handle the controls of the
timereversed phasecongugate hydralic wave duck dunker!
===========================================================================
Message 4294                                   DATE/TIME: 01/15/94 02:31
From   : BILL BEATY                         -- RECEIVED --
To     : WILLIAM ALLEN
Subject: (R) artificial scm
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

On the "artificial superconductor" coil:
.
I came up with my device while wondering how to fake a superconductor

Page 7

levitation effect for   a   museum  exhibit.   You  probably  know  that  a
superconductor can levitate permanent magnets by excluding their fields via
closed current loops  on  the  surface  of  the  material.   What  suddenly
appeared in my brain was a picture of a matrix of electromagnet coils, each
with a hall-effect magnetic field sensor in the center, and  each driven by
a power amplifier  getting  its  signal  from  the sensor.  This setup does
nothing, since the sensors detect any  field  from the coils and force them
to turn off.

BUT, if a magnet approaches the matrix of coils, the sensors  will  turn on
the coils just  enough  to force the field at the sensors to be zero.  This
is just what a superconductor plate  does!   And  the  coils  do  repel the
magnet.  Regardless of which pole of the magnet approaches the coil, the
sensor sends a current which forces the coil and magnet to repel.
.
Building this device is easier than it sounds.  First try  making  a single
"repulsor" coil as  shown  below.  You  use  a  switching-type bipolar hall
effect sensor, a PNP and an NPN power  darlington  transistor,  and  a coil
taken from a solenoid.  I used 1/4-20 bolts for the iron core of my
coils.  The coil was for a 12V solenoid, and I drove it with  + and - 24Vdc
supplies.  I got  the  transistors from DIGI-KEY electronic mail order, and
the SS41 from R&D Electronic surplus catalog.
.
+Power
\
/        +Power
22K  \         /
GND __________            /       /                      SS41
|       |           \    |/   ZTX603             goes here
|      /             |   |                              |
|      \100K    *----*---|                              |
|      /        |    |   |              CORE            V
Micro-   |      \       /     |   |\  |         ================
Switch  _|_      |   |/       |    __\|         ================
SS41  |   |     |   |        |        \       _    _    _
|   |-----*---|        |         |     / \  / \  / \
|___|         |        |         |    |   ||   ||   |
|           |\  |    |         |_____\_/__\_/__\_/__
|            __\|    |         |        COIL        |
-Power              \   |         |  (fm 24V Solnoid.) |
|  |     |  /                     |
|  |     |/__                     |
|  |   |/                        GND
|  |   |
|  *---| ZTX705
|      |
|      |\
-Power      \
\
-Power
.
Get the circuit operating, place the  SS41  Hall-Effect  sensor against the
end of the coil's iron core, then bring a bar magnet near  the  end  of the
core and see  if  it  repels.   If  not, turn the SS41 over to reverse it's
output polarity.  Attach the SS41 to  the  core  (I  used  cable  ties  and
silicone)
.
This is one repulsor coil.  It acts like a bar magnet which  repels  either
end of another magnet!  With five I managed to levitate a 3" alnico rod

Page 8

magnet VERY wobbly  and  temporary.  With two rows of six coils attached to
iron strips, I made a slanted track which  bar  magnets  would zip silently
along.  This circuit  is  too  simple  and has no adjustments,  and  it  is
underdamped, so levitated  magnets  tend  to wobble.  Copper damping plates
(pennys) held near the levitated magnet  can  cure this, but it's a cludgey
fix. I have yet to build a square panel and attempt to float a big magnet.
.
If you build any of the above, try connecting an audio amp  to the DC power
lines.  Each repulsor  circuit  is an inheirant switching power supply, and
the chorus of variable frequency whining  sounds  from  the coils is pretty
cool.
.
On capacitor discharge: leave messages for Gary Hawkins on  this board.  He
is working with  30kV oil capacitors with discharge energies like a shotgun
blast.  Ask him about samples of the  pennies  and  quarters  he  shrunk by
compressing them with the field of an exploding coil.

cc: Jerry Decker
===========================================================================
Message 4311                                   DATE/TIME: 01/15/94 15:31
From   : BILL BEATY                         -- RECEIVED --
To     : JERRY DECKER (SYSOP)
Subject: Keely motor
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

THROUGH THE CURTAIN  by  Viola Neal & Shafica Karagulia  /  DeVorss  &  Co,
Marina del Ray, CA,    (c)1983
.
This is a  book  on  particular  dreams  some people had in the early '60s,
where in the dream the person attended  some  sort of class and had various
things explained to them.
.
In the Technology  part  of the book, the "teachers" say  many  times  that
sound is extremely  important  to  physics,  psychic  phenomena, and to the
structure of the universe.  Also, the  following  two  paragraphs  suddenly
appear.  No other mention of motors or of "K" appear anywhere else
as far as I can see.
.
From p172:

"Concentrating on a particular geometrical form first at his
throat center, then at a point in the brain, made it possible
to start the "K" motor.  The motor itself required a certain
type of construction which was no secret, but once he had
started it by this method it continued to operate until he had
shut it off, either by mechanical means or again by focusing
on certain geometrical forms in his brain.  "K" happened on
this through experimentation.  He knew it was dangerous to give
it to people and never said how he did it."
.
From p180:

"The secret of the "K" motor was a crystalline form that was
used and no one knew.  It was under everybody's nose, but no one
felt a crystal had an effect on a motor.  "K" found out that just
by visualizing the geometrical form of the crystal, he could get
the motor to start.  But there were crystals in the mechanism of
the motor.  Simpler devices than "K's" motor could be made.  A
simple combination of magnets and crystals could give you all

Page 9

the energy you need to run a house."
.
So, who could the mysterious "K" be??!
===========================================================================
Message 4479                                   DATE/TIME: 01/22/94 11:47
From   : NORMAN WOOTAN                      -- RECEIVED --
To     : GERALD O'DOCHARTY
Subject: Capacitor Discharges
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

Gerald:  You are  probably already aware of what I am going to say so don't
take offense for it is meant for the  folks  out  there  who  don't  really
understand WATTS, KILLOWATTS or KILOWATT/HOURS.  Remember  that  Tesla said
that a capacitor  is an amazing device for it allowed us the flexibility to
store high voltage energy and release  it  at  any  time  interval  that we
deamed oppropriate for our application.  Let's look at an example.

I have a bank of Energy Storage Capacitors that came from  Oak  Ridge,  DOE
made by Sangamo  Electric.   They are 12"x 12" x 30" in size and weigh 200#
each. They are rated at 3000 JOULES @  60,000 volts.  I have a bank of them
numbering 60 each which gives a total capacity of 180,000  JOULES. Now if I
discharge this bank  in 1 second @60 KV it would yield a current of 3 amps.
What we are all familiar with is the electric  meter which is watt/hours so
this bank of capacitors would yield 50watt/hours,but if I discharge it in 1
millisecond the yield  would  be  180 MEGAWATTS. Then if  I  were  able  to
discharge it in 1 microsecond then the pulse would be 1.8 GIGAWATTS.

The problem is  in the fact that the whole bank would explode and devistate
everthing arround it. We can't get conductors  big  enough  to  handle  the
currents associated with an instantaneous discharge of this magnitude.  The
bottom line of  the  discussion is that power is based  on  time   and  the
capacitor allows us  to  compress a lot of power in a short time frame.  Be
careful and good luck.  Norm
===========================================================================
Message 4490                                   DATE/TIME: 01/23/94 01:25
From   : WILLIAM ALLEN
To     : ALL
Subject: COILBAK RESPONSE FROM CHAD PRYSON
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

I HAVE BEEN SENDING FILES AND WORKING  WITH CHAD PRYSON. WE WORKED TOGETHER
IN KNOXVILLE, TN,  AND THEN I MOVED TO TEXAS... DUE TO  THE  LONG  DISTANCE
CALLS, HE DOESN'T  CALL  OFTEN,  SO  HE  SENT  THIS  TO  ME  FOR  UPLOAD TO
KEELYNET.......  HE HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE HENDERSHOT GENERATOR FOR SOME
TIME, AND HAS WOUND A BEAUTIFUL PAIR OF  BASKET COILS AND HAS BECOME EXPERT
AT MAKING THE CAPACITORS CALLED FOR IN THE TEXT.  ALAS,  THE  DEVICE  STILL
DOES NOT PUT OUT ANY POWER. CHAD DOES THE BEST LOOKING ASSEMBLY WORK I HAVE
SEEN, AND IS  A  VERY  GOOD TECHNICIAN. HE UMPED AT THE COILBAK AS AN IDEA,
AND IMMEDIATELY TRIED HIS HAND AT THE CIRCUIT. FOLLOWING ARE HIS RESPONCES:
**********************************************************

To KeelyNet

Jan. 3rd, 1994

RE: Coilbak circuit submitted by Joel McClain

As I have experimented with the Coilbak circuit, I have

Page 10

obtained no favorable results as yet. I would like to
point out two critical factors in the circuit design:

1.) Regardless of where the comparator reference voltage
is set, the SCR has been triggered and will not turn
off by any subsequent action of the gate voltage from
the comparator output.

Since the SCR is conducting, the sawtooth ramp will
continue to maintain bias on the SCR anode, ensuring
that it will conduct the entire ramp from triggering
to maximum amplitude. There is no way to inhibit the
coil charge cycle at 90 degrees.

2.) Due to the extremely short duration of the sawtooth
to such a short transient and reset before the next
ramp begins. The only exception to this is pulling the
sawtooth waveform below ground by using a negative
supply in addition to the positive battery supply.
This, of course, tends to negate the entire purpose of
the circuit since that supply cannot be replenished.

This has been my experience to date. I am normally not a
skeptic regarding such matters, (I always hope everyone has
altruistic intentions) but something seems to be missing
or incorrect.

Have I missed something?

Sincerely,

3708 Douglas Dam Rd.
Kodak, TN 37764
615-933-8025

===========================================================================
Message 4491                                   DATE/TIME: 01/23/94 01:32
From   : WILLIAM ALLEN                      -- PRIVATE --    -- RECEIVED --
To     : JOEL MCCLAIN
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

JOEL, MY FRIEND  CHAD  PRYSON  HAS  SENT  ME  A RESPONSE TO LOAD TO THE NET
CONCERNING COILBAK.  THIS  NOTE  IS  TO  LET  YOU  KNOW  TO  GET  THE  FIRE
WITH YOUR RESULTS.  MESSAGE #4490 IS MY PRELUDE AND HIS LETTER...  THANKS.
WILLIAM ALLEN
P.S.... NO OFFENSE OF COURSE!  ALL IN THE INTEREST OF F.E. FOR ALL!
===========================================================================
Message 4538                                   DATE/TIME: 01/24/94 23:16
From   : BOB ALDRICH                        -- RECEIVED --
To     : TERRY BASTIAN
Subject: (R) efficient batteries
Folder : A, "Public Mail"

Terry,

Page 11

Ok, here's the scoop on this liquid electricity. The man I know who told
me is getting  older,  and so couldn't recall all that I remembered, but he
did come up with some more details.

He couldn't recall the man's name,  but  he  is known in the midwest for
his invention that waters farms, sort of a very high-powered water pistol..
It irrigates a farm with one nozzle... it shoots water half a mile or more!
He almost recalle the name, but not quite, but said it rhymes  with stag or
stap or something..  He  said  that someone else did some experiments along
the same lines, that he copied what this  man  did, and that this other man
disappeared. Whether he left suddenly or mysteriously or  just  moved away,
or was abducted is not known.

This man did say that the liquid electricity battery was doubly enclosed
(possibly for insulation  from  heat)  and  that it was charged for several
hours at a very high voltage and it eventually  got extremely heavy. If you
shook it the electricity sloshed around inside.

He had  built  a small model, cooled by helium (although  I  thought  my
friend said nitrogen last time) that, if scaled up, per his calculations to
a cubic foot,  WOULD  CONTAIN  ENOUGH  ENERGY  TO LIGHT NEW YORK CITY FOR A
WEEK. Also that this cubic foot of electricity WOULD WEIGH ABOUT TWO TONS.

There is  another  such device, a  different  researcher,  somewhere  in
Washington or Oregon possibly, who has something similar called the Trinium
battery. Don't know if it's exactly the same thing, but if you want I could
trace this down also.

AND, here is another one.

Another type of battery was designed by a fellow named  Joe  Wallace  of
Phoenix, Arizona in the mid-fifties. This battery was TWO CUBIC INCHES, yet
was comparable to  the  lead-acid  car  battery we know.  And it would draw
higher current. My friend saw one the  size  of  a penny (single cell) that
would produce hundreds of amps at 1-1.5 volts!

It was SILVER BASED; the electrolyte may have been silver  chloride. One
terminal was a paste and the other terminal was a solid terminal. There may
be a way to trace this fellow down.  However, some of the technology may be
defense related, as Amphenol allowed him to demonstrate his battery to them
(how nice of  them)  but  they didn't want to buy his design, as they had a
similar design which didn't work as well  but  was  adequate for their use,
which was used in the detonation of the Atomic Bomb!

All for now!
Bob
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