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High Voltage: the Megabrain Bioelectric Interviews

Edited by Michael Hutchison


	Talk about paradigm shifts. For much of the 20th century both
the medical and the scientific establishments have been ruled by
the "chemical-mechanistic model" of biological systems--the view
that living organisms are simply chemical machines, complex systems
of structures and mechanisms that work chemically.  Now, as a
result of groundbreaking research into the mysteries of cellular
growth, healing and regeneration, and increasing evidence of the
health risks of certain types of electromagnetic fields, a new
paradigm is emerging, what one of the pioneering researchers in the
field, Robert O. Becker, M.D., calls "a new vision of living
things, one that has returned electromagnetic energy to a position
of prominence." 

	This new vision, which draws upon concepts of information
theory and solid-state physics, and is made possible by the
development of extremely sensitive new detection and measurement
devices, is a vision of what Dr. Becker calls "electronic control
systems within the body that regulate such functions as growth and
healing and that also serve as the substrate for our internal
control and communications systems.  Application of the same
technology to the relationship between the external energies in the
Earth's geomagnetic field and living organisms has revealed that
living things are intimately related to this field and derive
vital, basic information from it."

	What is happening today in the field of bioelectricity, says
Becker, constitutes a "revolution, which is providing us with a
greatly expanded vision of the complexity and capabilities of
living things." Medicine, he explains, "has come full circle, from
the mysterious energies of the shaman-healer to the scientific
understanding of the life energies of the body and their
relvaionship to the energies of the environment.  This scientific
revolution has simultaneously enriched the concepts of
technological medicine and supported the ideas of energy medicine. 
What is emerging is a new paradigm of life, energy, and medicine."

	I tried to explore some of the cross currents of this
scientific revolution in Megabrain, with discussions of cranial
electrostimulation (CES), pulsed electromagnetic field generators
(PEMFs), and the intriguing "secret electro-Manichean struggles for
world domination" that some authorities assured me was underway.
My investigations, I quickly realized, could only begin to scratch
the surface. And since then an astonishing amount, much of it even
more extraordinary and mysterious, has happened.  And so, I eagerly
seized the opportunity presented by the publication of this
newsletter to pick the brains of many of the leading figures in
this revolution.

MEGABRAIN REPORT conducted interviews with these individuals: 


ROBERT C. "BOB" BECK, B.E., D.Sc., is widely known for his
instrumentation of altered states, his development of state-of-the-
art medical electrostimulators, and his investigation of Tesla
electromagnetics.  Bob has been a consultant to Sandia Corporation,
the USN Office of Surface Weaponry on the subject of E.L.F.
detection, and was a Senior Staff Scientist at Eyring Research
Institute.  He was Acting Chief of Radiological Defense, OCD, in
Los Angeles fron 1958 through 1963.  He has designed and built
extremely sensitive magnetometers for the Navy.  He has been a
senior lecturer in the graduate school, University of Southern
California.  Bob owns basic patents on low-voltage electronic flash
and several other patents involving electro-optical systems.  He
is the developer and designer of the Brain Tuner, a CES device. Bob
served on the board of directors of the U.S. Psychtronics
Association for seven years, and was their national president for
three.  Bob resides in the Los Angeles area where he is active in
energy, holistic medicine, and the effects of electromagnetic
energies on health and consciousness.

ROBERT O. BECKER, M.D. Perhaps the most important pioneer in the
field of bioelectricity, his breakthrough research on regeneration
and its relationship to electrical currents in living things has
led to his nominations for the Nobel Prize. His work is best
explained in his own books, particularly The Body Electric:
Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life (1985, with Gary
Selden) and the new Cross Currents: The Perils of Electropollution,
The Promise of Electromedicine (reviewed in this issue).  He is a
professor at the State University of New York, Upstate Medical
Center, and Lousiana State University Medical Center.

ELDON BYRD, PH.D., holds Master's degrees in both Electrical
Engineering (Purdue) and Medical Engineering (George Washington
University) in addition to his Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering
(Brownell).  He worked as an operations analyst for the Advanced
Planning and Analysis Staff of the Naval Ordinance Laboratory in
Silver Spring, Maryland, and in other capacities for the Navy over
a period of many years.  During this time he was responsible for
advanced weapons analysis.  He also conducted astonishingly wide-
ranging research.  His sophisticated measurement of plants'
responses to threats (and intended threats) from humans is
described in the book The Secret Life of Plants.   During his
tenure with the Navy, Eldon conducted and directed a large body of
extremely precise, sophisticated and well-funded research into the
interactions of electromagnetic fields and biological systems.  In
1986-87 he left the Navy and began working privately as a
consultant and researcher, concentrating on the interactions of
electromagnetic fields with humans.  During this time he has worked
extensively with some of the most sophisticated "Megabrain-type"
devices in existence, and he himself has invented several new types
of machines.  Currently he is conducting research with dolphins
involving extremely sensitive broad-range monitoring of their
acoustic and electromagnetic signal emissions.

DANIEL L. KIRSCH, PH.D. is Dean of the Graduate School of
Electromedical Sciences at City University of Los Angeles, editor
of the American Journal of Electromedicine, and author of The
Complete Clinical Guide to Electro-Acutherapy and A Selected Study
of Electro-Acutherapy, Dr. Kirsch has designed advanced TENS and
CES devices, such as the Alpha Stim.  He is chairman of the board
of Electro-Medical Products, Inc., which manufactures the Alpha

PETER LINDEMANN is an authority on subtle energy and advanced
technology.  He studied with kahunas and healers in Hawaii and his
Hawaiian teachers helped awaken certain extraordinary perceptual
abilities.  Equipped with this unusual sensitivity, Peter schooled
himself in physics and chemistry and studied Wilhelm Reich, Nicola
Tesla, Ruth Drown, Viktor Schauberger, and other pioneering
geniuses of the early 20th century.  He worked with Bruce DiPalma
and became an authority on "free energy" technologies in the United
States.  Peter has innovated major advances in biocircuitry and he
is highly adept in the field of Radionics, both as an operator and
as an equipment designer.  He has had a private and clinical
practice in holistic healing for 15 years.  Peter is the developer
and designer of the BioPacer series of magnetic pulse generators
as well as the Centron and Spacecrafter devices.  He is currently
Vice President and Science Advisor for Borderland Sciences Research

GLEN REIN, PH.D. obtained his doctorate in neurochemistry from the
University of London, is conducting research at Stanford
University, and, with a recent grant from the Fetzer Foundation,
has begun to set up his own research organization with a special
interest in investigating the effects of "scalar" fields on
biological systems. He is one of the foremost investigators of
bioelectromagnetics and psychoneuroimmunology, he is performing
groundbreaking research in the effects of electromagnetism on the
human body.

We originally intended to publish these discussions as separate
interviews, complete with Qs and As, but it quickly became clear
that these men needed no prodding or guidance.  They all had things
they wanted to say, and generally they all kept circling back again
and again over the same questions, concerns and enthusiasms, which
they addressed with authority, emotion and eloquence.

The subjects ranged widely, from the mysterious and perhaps
paranormal properties of "scalar" fields to secret research
projects in bioelectricity conducted by the U.S. and Russian
governments, to the potential medical benefits of bioelectricity.
But, since our experts came from many different scientific
backgrounds, their ideas about each of the areas in question
frequently added new dimensions--whether through disagreement,
elucidation, or different perspective--to the ideas of the others.

And so we have decided to present their words not as separate
interviews (as they actually took place), but as "group
discussions," explorations of the most intriguing areas in the
field of bioelectricity. Because of the wealth of information our
experts had on these subjects (the transcripts run to many hundreds
of pages), we have been forced to limit our excerpts, and to divide
the discussion into two segments, the first presented in this
issue, the second in the next issue.

The subjects our "virtual group" discusses in this issue include
cranial electrostimulation (CES)--potential health benefits,
evidence of its effects on mental performance, discussions of  its
safety--and the bizarre but real "scaler" fields--quantum, non-
electromagnetic "information matrix fields" that some investigators
believe may cast light on paranormal events such as telepathy and
psychic healing.

In the next issue of this newsletter we will continue with
discussions of top secret research (some of which is revealed to
the public for the first time) into the effects of electromagnetic
and scaler fields on human behavior for use as "mind control," of
apparent attempts to suppress bioelectrical research, and of the
most promising and exciting bioelectric and electromedicaL
technologies on the horizon.


Perhaps the most exciting area of brain-enhancement research is
Cranial Electro-stimulation (CES). Research has proven CES
effective in alleviating anxiety, depression, insomnia and the
anhedonia (or inability to experience pleasure) and discomfort that
accompanies withdrawal from drugs or alcohol. Now evidence is
accumulating from a number of researchers that CES can dramatically
enhance cognitive functioning in a variety of ways. One recent
study shows that subjects receiving CES while given a learning task
learned more and showed more concentration and alertness than a
control group.  Other studies of subjects suffering cognitive
deficits caused by brain damage showed that CES treatments not only
improved cognitive functioning but reversed the brain damage that
caused it. Most recently, studies of patients suffering from
"attention-to-task deficits" and impaired short-term memory as a
result of head injuries showed that those receiving CES treatment
had "striking and significant improvement" in such areas as mental
speed, visual and auditory perception, concentration, and short-
term memory.

Scientists are still uncertain as to how CES increasees memory,
learning and other cognitive functions, though they propose a
number of mechanisms, ranging from the stimulation of
neurochemicals assosiated with relaxation, pleasure, memory and
learning, to influencing the reticular activating system. We begin
our discussions  of CES by asking the experts to discuss how it
developed and speculate on how it might work.

BECK: Since about 1983 many laboratories have correlated addiction
with measurements of the brain's available neuro-transmitters or
neuro-peptides.  For example, in one well-known study the
researchers addicted rats to heroin. They would stop the supply of
heroin to the addicted rats, and a day or so later they would cut
off the rats' heads and run what is called electrophoresis or
chromatography tests to find out what neuro-peptides were present. 
And the rats that were addicted had been getting so much opiate
that the little endorphin factories in the brain would shut down
and say, "Look, our body's got too much of this.  Quit
manufacturing it."  And it would take anywhere from a week to three
weeks before their rat's brains would begin manufacturing beta
endorphin again.  Whereas, if you cut of the heads of one of the
control rats who had never been addicted, you would find the
normal, expected levels of beta endorphin.  And then they would
take a third group of addicted rats, cold turkey cut them off of
the heroin, clip little electrodes to their ears, and within 20
minutes of electrical stimulation at a particular frequency (in
this case about 11 Hz) the rat brain would start showing that the
endorphin production had started up again.  So, those rats wouldn't
go through withdrawal symptoms.  
	This was first discovered in humans by Dr. Wen of the Tung Wa
Hospital in Hong Kong.  And it was mentioned in one of the early
articles in the January, 1983, Omni Magazine, when Dr. Meg
Patterson came to this country and was hoping to open up a market
for her device, which she called NET, neuro-electric therapy.  But,
she failed to do that and millions of dollars of investors' money
went down the tubes.  They never got anything from this.  No
devices were delivered to the people who had bought franchises. 
And, although she was trying to do a good thing, a great deal of
harm came from this.  But that's another long story.  
	But they had been using similar devices in the Soviet Union
since at least the 1950's.  In the Soviet Union it was called
"Electro-Sleep".  It had nothing to do with sleep, but that's the
term; they were thinking originally that they had a cure for
insomnia, which they did, because that was one of the stress-
related conditions which were alleviated. And the government sent
a couple of our people over there to get the devices and test them,
which they did at St. Elizabeth Hospital in about 1969.  This work
preceded Meg Patterson's by 10 or so years.  They found that the
Russian device worked, but the government would not allow the
technology to be put into practice.  And that's another long story.

BECKER:  I knew Meg Patterson...oh, for the first time probably
about 15 years ago when she first got started.  She came into
electrical stimulation from acupuncture.  Auricular acupuncture. 
And, my contribution to this whole business was saying to her 
"Look I don't think it's the acupuncture system you are dealing
with here, I think you could replace your needle electrodes with
flat plate electrodes, put them on the mastoid process, and get
basically the same effect with a lot less fuss and much less danger
of producing a burn."   She followed this advice and has followed
it since.  And she got very interesting results.  The first of
which was that the minute that you could put this on, the patient
could stop taking the drugs and would not have any withdrawal
	When I was in England, I saw a number of her cases.  I was
impressed by one thing.  They all said to me that they had a
personality alteration as a result of using Meg Patterson's
technique.  That they had gone from an addictive personality to a
non-addictive.  That following six weeks of treatment with her
device, not only were they able to be without the drugs but--even
six months later--they didn't experience the craving for the drug
that had inevitably followed in any of the other techniques for
	When I gave a talk on this, I said that this to me was
important because it suggests that this may be a new way we can
look at personality.  Can we get some more information on
personality from these kinds of experiments? 

KIRSCH: There's an enormous amount of anecdotal material about CES
and personality transformation.  In fact, I'll tell you something
I hear quite often:  A spouse often says "this is the person I
married come back again".  You know, they may have been married 
for twenty or thirty years.  It's an extremely interesting
observation that I've recently started paying attention to because
I hear it over and over again.

MBR:	Some sort of personality change takes place when people use
CES, would you say?

KIRSCH:  Yes, they're happier, they're less concerned about their
problems.  They still have their problems, but they're less
concerned.  I was interviewed last Friday by the Los Angeles Daily
News and the reporter was a bit skeptical about trying CES.  The
interview went for a little over a half hour.  Then the reporter
tried it.  Within about two minutes she tossed her pad on the floor
and said, "I don't feel like doing this interview anymore," and
started telling us all about her life, her problems.  She just was
a completely different person.  It was an amazing transformation
and you could just see it.  I mean, I've seen it a lot but I never
get tired of seeing a person become calm, happy and relaxed.  It
focuses their mind and relaxes their body.

MBR: Dr. Becker told us that when he talked with some of Meg
Patterson's patients who were being treated by CES, he noticed that
they had seemed to have undergone some sort of personality change-
-they felt that they were no longer addictive personalities.

KIRSCH:  Yes, people are transformed.  People get into patterns of
behavior as a result of their state of consciousness, but most
people aren't even remotely aware of their state of consciousness. 
For example, biofeedback practitioners are starting to use the
Alpha-Stim quite a bit to actively take the person to the same
place they're trying to learn how to go.  Once they're there, it's
easier to get back there on their own.  Anyone who's driven around
California's freeway systems knows that it's both easier to get
someplace the second time and it also seems a lot easier to get
home usually.  Just familiar pathways.  
	For example, Dr. Charles Stroebel has been doing some work
treating depressives using CES in combination with his EEG
brainmapping device, the CAP Scan, which was described in
Megabrain. When he's hooked up to the CES device, the depressive
subject sees his EEG patterns normalize during the session and can
feel the effect.  Chuck is a great advocate of biofeedback and so
he also sees the benefit of having the patients view their own
change objectively on the EEG.  This is a big breakthrough.
Biofeedback has limited results in a large percentage of the
population because it is a very active process, you have to work
at it, whereas CES is a passive process which doesn't bore you so
it is a lot easier. The combination is ideal because you can take
someone to where they want to go and then show them how to get
there by themselves, because there are an awful lot of demands or
stressful situations in our lives and one does not effect a "cure,"
so to speak--it's an ongoing process.  So if somebody can learn how
to do it themselves, that's fine.  I also find that by doing CES
on a regular basis, say two or three times a week, for ten to
twenty minutes, you can get the same benefits as if the subject
learned to do it using biofeedback--you can shortcut the whole
biofeedback process.
	Several recent studies are interesting in this context.  In
one study they were treating people with back pain using electrical
stimulation, and they'd measured their depression levels using a
psychological test, and they found that simply receiving the
electrical treatment reduced their depression. They didn't have to
"learn" anything at all.

MBR: But this wasn't CES, it was just TENS in the back.

KIRSCH: Well, it wasn't just TENS, because whenever your treat the
body, you're treating the whole body through the area you're

MBR: So, you think the effects on depression had to do with the
signal being scattered into the spinal area, up into the brain when
the back was being treated?

KIRSCH: Yes, I mean the back is part of the central nervous system. 
We think of our brain in our head, but it's connected.  Everything
is connected actually. . . But about the personality
transformation, there was another study in which subjects were
being treated for drug addiction, and one group received CES from
the Alpha Stim, the other didn't.  Again, they were given
personality tests, before and after.  And they found that the group
getting CES had undergone a big personality change--their levels
of self-sufficiency, dominance, assertiveness and ego strength, for
example, had more than doubled, in some cases more than tripled!
The control group didn't show any changes of that sort.

MBR: How does CES work? Does it alter neurochemistry?  

KIRSCH: I think the key is that there's a direct stimulation of
the autonomic nervous system. In substance abuse cases, for
example, I don't know how much of this is neurochemical and how
much of it is a matter of activating the parasympathetic nervous
system to counterbalance the withdrawal symptoms, which are really
a list of sympathetic nervous system activity--tearing and sweating
and the cold shakes.  All the symptoms of withdrawal are a list of
sympathetic nervous system activity, by stimulating in and around
the vicinity of the ear, you're affecting the vagus nerve which is
a part of the parasympathetic system . . .

MBR: Sort of electrically switching on the relaxation response,
would you say?

KIRSCH:  Yes,  and I don't know how much of that is chemical.  I
think it might just be a matter of balance between the two nerves,
the two aspects of the autonomic nervous system. When we talk about
neurochemical, in general, I like to say that medicine has been
based on chemistry for a long time and yet medicine has failed in
the treatment of functional and degenerative diseases.   When we
look at chemistry, it's basically molecules composed of elements
composed of atoms and the atoms are held together by electrical
bonding.  There are negatively charged electrons moving around a
positively charged nucleus and movement of electricity, known as
current, is simply the passage of electrons in a specific manner.
And the specificity of that manner, which we call the wave form,
produces a different biological effect--just like the different
chemicals in the drug.  	Obviously we still have a great deal to
learn about this but overall we can definitely see some profound
changes and I think that rather than looking at the electricity as
affecting the chemistry in the body, I think that we've gone beyond
the chemistry to the next level of structure.

MBR:	Are you familiar with Becker's theories about the DC analog
network and the body?

KIRSCH:  Yes. Becker's a genius.

MBR:  Do you see electrostimulation influencing that electrical

KIRSCH:  Yes, the Alpha-Stim works by using a biphasic DC current
that goes in one direction and then goes in the other, very slowly
compared to the speed of biological reactions.  If I may personify
cells, they're sitting around there watching this thing slowly go
by and then slowly go by the other way.  We varied the pulse and
other aspects of the wave shape to produce a full range of
harmonics or frequencies within each six second period. In this way
we are activating, what I believe Becker calls the current of
injury.  Becker has shown, unequivocally, that by augmenting the
electrical field you can produce regenerative growth in humans. 
I don't know if that can be transferred from an electrical model
to a chemical model.  I think that some of the mechanisms that we
need to learn more about here are purely electrical.  Obviously
chemistry plays a role in it.  It will affect the chemistry, but
a lot of it is purely electrical. 


BECKER:	I've had no personal experience with direct electrical
brain stimulation. All I can say is that the parameters that are
important when you are talking about the effect of currents or
fields upon cells are the power inherent in whatever you are
applying, the frequencies that would be involved, and the wave
forms. I think frequency is somewhat more important, but I am not
certain about that.

MBR:	When you say frequency do you mean the pulse repetition rate?

BECKER:  Well, if you have a pulse that is composed of a number of
other individual pulses of a higher frequency, then it's going to
depend upon the relationship between these two parameters as to
which one the body is most likely to see.  And, if you have a pulse
that is, let's say, of fairly low frequency, like 15 Hertz which
is used in the bone-growth stimulators and you're at a couple of
hundred Hertz or even higher in the individual pulses within each
pulse burst, I don't think you are having much of an effect from
the high frequency but your effect is due to your body rectifying
the whole business and looking at it as a 15 Hertz signal.  But
that is an opinion, it's not backed up with data.

MBR: Dr. Beck, how does CES work?

BECK:  Man is an extremely complex biocosmic resonator, and we're
just now discovering some of the effects of electromagnetic storms
and the sun are having on our own earth's animal forms and human
subjects.  You cannot create a simple mechanistic description of
how these processes operate. People ask me occasionally why this
or that works and I tell them the truth, that although I'm a
physicist, I don't know what electricity is. Neither does anybody
else.  But we can certainly build a lot of marvelous things with
it, from toasters to television sets to computers.  And it will be
quite a few years before even the effect of some of these simple
stimulation type devices are well understood, much less fully
	Now CES will have frequency components up to several thousand
hertz.  And these "beat" or heterodyne in the brain with other
frequencies to produce third order harmonics, and a lot of this
work has been done by Voll--known for EAV, or "electroacupuncture
according to Voll"--who mapped the effects of beneficial
frequencies versus non-beneficial.  Many of these electromedical
devices similar to the resurrected Royal Rife technology use square
waves.  And, by definition the square wave has an infinite number
of odd harmonics, and there might be bad guys in that mix, as well
as good, and you can't tell until you look at it in a spectrum
analyzer, and most of the people who build these don't own a
$50,000 spectrum analyzer.
	In the last six or seven years I have seen perhaps a hundred
to two hundred devices come through my lab, usually sent by people
who have purchased them and then want to know a little more about
them.  I'm absolutely horrified at some of the units that come
through that have bad guy frequencies in the mix along with the
good guy.  	
	Example:  Everywhere you eat you'll find a container of sodium
chloride, table salt.  But, sodium is a poison and chlorine is a
poison, and if you separate that sodium chloride into its elements,
they're both lethal.  But your body is physiological a saline
mixture.  It's in your blood and in all of your body fluids. 
Potassium/sodium balance is quite critical to life.  But, the
elements are poisonous individually.  And the same thing is an
absolute fact in electro-medical devices. 
	I've been following this for many, many years, and many of
the devices which are copies or counterfits of other devices have
the wrong frequency mix because nobody has bothered to look at them
on a spectrum analyzer.  They'll look at them on an oscilloscope,
which is a time domain display.  It will show you the wave forms
and the frequency of the pulse repetition rate, but it cannot show
you what the harmonics of those wave forms are actually producing
in the way of frequencies.  Many engineers today confuse pulse
repetition rate with frequency.  They are two entirely different
	Example:  How many taxi cabs are going by a specific corner
per hour in New York City?  That would be the repetition rate of
taxis passing.  But you don't know what's inside of those taxicabs
until you look at that wave form on a spectrum analyzer, which is
a frequency domain display--an entirely different thing from time
domain.  And many of the devices that are being sold today as
electro-medical, either cranial electro-stimulators or generic TENS
devices produced after the "rage" kind of stuck after the 1983
article in Omni Magazine, have got the wrong frequency spectra. 
And they don't bother to get a spectrum analyzer and find out what
their frequencies are.  
	For example, many of them put out simple square waves.  And
a square wave, by definition in your text book, is a wave that's
made from "an infinite number of odd harmonics."  The infinite
number of odd harmonics show on the spectrum analyzer as a long
series of lines across the screen, each one of them representing
one of those infinite numbers.  But, if you modify a square wave
into a triangular wave, you'll find that you have an infinite
number of even, not odd, but even harmonics.  Now the way to get
the good guy frequencies in there is to modify a rectilinear wave
in certain ways that can be done by a computer using special chips,
that will give you the good guys and not the bad guys.  You
eliminate the sodium and the chlorine from your product and you
have only the sodium chloride.  
	So, yes, there are frequencies that will give you the
marijuana high, or the crack high, or even emulate LSD to a degree. 
And there are other frequencies that will make you paranoid and
anxious and depressed and nauseous and all of the bad stuff.  But
you have to know what those are.  And they are in the open
literature.  But many, many, many instrument designers don't want
to go to that much work.  They want to copy something and they
count taxicabs and they don't count the contents of the taxicabs.

MBR: Can you be a little more specific about those various

BECK: One example is that beta endorphin is released at 111 hz. 
Enkephalins at about 4 hz.  And catacholamines at about 10.2. 
These things are fairly well known.

MBR:  This brings us to the CES device you've invented, the BT-5
which you've described as containing within its rectilinear wave,
over 250, beneficial frequencies.

BECK:  250 plus or minus whatever window your spectrum analyzer
happens to catch a pulse at.  There's another trick to this: you
have to catch a only single pulse, because if you catch a number
of pulses in your window of the spectrum analyzer, they might be
out of time phase with your Fast Fourier Transform program, and it
will indicate false reads.  So we put out a little bulletin to the
people who have designed these, we felt a social responsibility,
to tell them that it is necessary to use an anti-aliasing hertzer
on their spectrum analyzer to avoid that problem.

MBR: Well, can you then describe the BT-5 and how it seems to
stimulate the "beneficial spectral windows" and what windows those
are, over what range?

BECK:  Well, they range from approximately 3 hertz to up to 14
kilohertz.  Now we believe that we can disregard some of the    
higher frequencies because of the limited penetration.  But we
believe, as many of the researchers have found, that the    
beneficial frequencies are those which stimulate, for example, beta
endorphin--that frequency is in the neighborhood of 111 hertz--and
enkephalins, catacholamines . . . now these have been well-known
for decades, and the way that these frequencies were discovered,
was trial and error.  A great deal of study has been done in
England, by holding the wave form constant and varying the pulse
repetition rate and varying the spacing between pulses, etc.  So
this is fairly well-known if you know how to go to an adequate
library and dig out the research papers.

MBR:  Bob, we've talked about how some specific frequencies can
influence neurotransmitters. Some research indicates that certain
frequencies of electrical stimulation influence the cell membranes
to facilitate a process called "long-term potentiation," that is
essential to memory formation. . .

BECK: One CES device has been proven to restore memory in subjects
with Korsakoff's Syndrome, which is the loss of short-term memory
found in chronic  alcoholics. In a matter of a week or two the
memory was restored, whereas it took several years of total
abstinence  before the memory was restored in the average chronic
MBR:  Could electrical stimulation in those optimal frequencies,
or beneficial frequency windows have memory enhancement effects on
people who are already healthy?

BECK:  One of the universal pieces of data that have come in from
our clients, is--they don't need a phone book any more, they can
remember from many years ago, and current numbers.  My own friend,
Diane, had been given a spinal block when her daughter was born
about 34 years ago.  When she came back from the hospital, she had
forgotten all of the phone numbers she knew.  She worked in
aerospace, and had a photographic memory.  She even had to write
her own phone number down.  And after her first exposure to the BT-
5 in 1983 all of these old memories started flowing back, and she
could remember all of the extensions and the numbers at the
aircraft plant where she had worked as a secretary.  It was just
absolutely amazing.  
	There's no question that it tends to restore memory.  We can't
make  medical claims, but I just love to brag about eight or so
Alzheimer patients who have experienced reversal and are now
functional again, and recognize their husbands or wives and don't
wander off and are able to go back to work if they want to.  And
that was a complete miracle.  We had no expectation whatsoever that
that was in the cards.
	But this is purely "anecdotal." I emphasize that while our
thrust is in cranial electrostimulation--and I hope you mention
this repeatedly in this article--we make absolutely no medical
claims, expressed or implied, for CES devices. They're purely for
experimental work. 

KIRSCH: Memory and learning . . . well, based on the speculation
of Michael Hutchison, Richard Madden did his doctoral dissertation 
studying the effects of the Alpha Stim on memory and learning in
a so-called "well/normal" population [Ed.: for a description of
this study see the "Research Update" article in this issue]. He
used a computer typing game that teaches you how to type by
measuring your speed and accuracy, and had significantly improved
results with the people who had real CES compared to the placebo
stimulation. Basically, the CES group learned more and they learned
faster and they kept learning more over repeated trials. In fact,
about 30% of the people who had the placebo (the false stimulation)
did worse in successive trials, which was attributed to
inattentiveness or fatigue. . . . I don't know if Nintendo has
completely replaced the video arcades, but you used to throw a lot
of quarters in those things and think that you would get better on
each game.

MBR: So maybe with CES attachments--

DK:	Yes, have electrodes on the video games! [laughter]  You'd do
better, you'd be more motivated, you'd throw in more quarters!

MBR: In addition to frequency, what are the essential quality or
determinants of the quality of electrical stimulation?

KIRSCH:	Well, the quantity, known as current or intensity, and
how much voltage pushes that through.  Primarily it is the shape
of the wave form, it's the timing.  How much current is delivered
and at what time and how it is released, what kind of a shape it
is in and how much time there is for recovery between the pulses.
	I might be the only one who doesn't feel that frequency is as
important as others do, but I do believe that some of these
concepts come from the early devices where you didn't have a lot
to vary and the electrical output was rather crude so they played
with the frequency. 

MBR:	Could you get specific here and give us a description of the
wave form that's produced by the Alpha-Stim?

KIRSCH:	It's actually hard to be specific on that because it is
a somewhat randomized wave form.  We use two frequencies, .5 and
.4 Hz which interact, .4 Hz would be called the beat frequency, and
between them produce a wide multiple of resonant or harmonic
frequencies.  We do it within a modified square wave with a spike
to break through the skin resistance preceding the square and then
we vary each pulse so that it's as if you're making it longer and
then you are making it shorter.  It's as if you're moving your
fingers down the frets of a guitar, one at a time, while you're
strumming all of the chords, not just a single note.

MBR:	You mean you change the duty cycle?

KIRSCH:	We change everything including the duty cycle.  At .4 Hz
it rectifies the other wave forms so regardless of what's happening
in the timing chain, the .4 puts in a random factor and creates a
non-repetitive stimulus that the body can't recognize--because any
kind of repetitive stimulation we would fight against.  We have
defense mechanisms for that sort of thing but if you can't
recognize them, our hope and intention is that the body would
recognize it as its own natural current and the cells, again to
personify cells, the cells would believe, if there is such a thing,
that the cells around them are functioning normally and they would
begin functioning normally.  This is an offshoot of Becker's theory
of the "current of injury" amplifying the signal with the correct
current characteristics so the area around the stimulated point
will go to a homeostatic state.

MBR:  Are there wave forms that are less desirable than others?

KIRSCH:  I would be cautious by putting a sinusoidal wave through
the head.  There are indications that at least at certain
frequencies, sinusoidal waves can be carcinogenic and I don't think
our bodies function in a sinusoidal manner.  It's probably a good
idea to stay away from sinusoidal currents.  It would have to be
a square because you can only put a range of frequencies in a
square.  We call it a "square wave envelope" meaning that within
the parameters of the square wave the current's no higher than this
and it's not going on any longer than that.  Thus, you can have
full range of frequencies.  
	This is only possible with microamperage, because only with
the longer bursts can you get the resonance. Milliampere current
would burn you terribly if it was kept on for a millisecond, so it
is used only for microseconds in milliampere TENS.  Thus there is
not much resonance from milliampere devices because they're very
quick, short bursts.  Otherwise they would be extremely dangerous. 

MBR:  So they're high powered and delivered for very short bursts
and on the other hand the Alpha-Stim is low-powered current
delivered for a longer burst?

KIRSCH:  Right, a very long time, comparatively speaking.  We have
a random duty cycle.  Eventually the pattern will come close to
repeating itself, but it takes a long time.  

MBR:	What about some of the other CES devices that are being used,
for example, Bob Beck makes one--the BT5 or Brain Tuner--that he
claims has a beneficial wave form.  And there are other CES devices
that use sine wave forms also.  

KIRSCH:	I'm not familiar with Bob Beck's most recent model.  I've
heard about some good effects from the Brain Tuner.  Some of the
devices that are being promoted for CES, according to my best
understanding at this time, are rather strong.  The FDA considers
the effect of CES in more of milliampere range, as if it is not
that different from TENS, but I certainly wouldn't put that kind
of current through my head.  I wouldn't be comfortable at all with


MBR:  What is the best places for electrodes?  Do you ever use four
electrodes or only two?

BECK:  I'm using only two electrode devices.   At one time Soviet
scientists were putting electrode pads over the closed eyelids,
two at the back of the head, and two at the temples.  They had used
anything from two electrodes up to six.  But, much later on when
the technology became more sophisticated, they found that LI 17 in
the acupuncture system was far more effective and rapid, so they
stopped putting the electrodes on all of the other sites.  Those
points are beneath the mastoid process and behind the ear.  That
has worked for almost everyone.  So, like every other technology,
the approved sites evolved after a great deal of trial and error. 

KIRSCH:  I have experimented with different electrode placements
and I've determined that the ear clip electrodes seem to produce
the best effect.  If you put them at the topmost part of the lobe
closest to the head, you are over an auricular therapy point that's
called the "Valium analog point," which is an interesting
coincidence if you believe in that sort of thing.  Yet if you put
them on the temples, they are not as effective.  I don't think it's
so much a cortical response as a brain stem response, a sub-
cortical response, and I think it's best effected with ear-clip
electrodes.  The mastoid-to-mastoid location has created some
problems. I avoid it--with any device.  I wouldn't recommend it
even with the Alpha-Stim. 

MBR:	And you are not interested in frontal electrodes?

KIRSCH:	Look at it this way, the Russians put it on the eyes and
then above the eyes to the occipital lobe.  Sighted people are
visually oriented and by putting it on the eyes and down by the
mastoids--since the visual cortex is in the occipital lobe--you're
giving a lot of stimulation to the visual system.  Especially
because the early Russian devices were rather strong current.  So
you would see flashing lights because the current would stimulate
the optic nerve.  If you close your eye and press on your eyelid,
you would see flashing lights because your optic nerve only picks
up light and so that is creating a sort of pattern in the brain.
But why are we focusing on the visual field pattern and why would
we go up on the forehead, which is more directly related to the
cortex?  I mean, I've played around with every electrode location
imaginable on the head and I have found the earlobes the most
effective for producing the desirable results we've discussed.  

MBR:  What do you think of ear clip stimulation, Dr. Beck?

BECK: It works.  It's a little more difficult.  It's slightly
uncomfortable and it doesn't look very pretty, but the beauty of
electrical stimulation as opposed to classical acupuncture is that
it doesn't require precision.  Acupuncture needles have to be
within about a third of a millimeter of the correct site.  They
have to be put in at a 30- angle, and it takes an expert to do
this.  But, with electro-acupuncture, or ESB (that's electro
stimulation to the brain) or CET, (which is cranial electro-
therapy) or NET--there are about a dozen acronyms for this
identical process--the electricity spreads outward.  Like charges
repel and you can be within 3/4 of an inch of the site and still
get good results, instead of a third of a millimeter from the site.

KIRSCH:  CES is not auricular therapy.  And auricular therapy does
not work unless you are extremely accurate.  I think that the size
of the electrodes that are used for CES would be too big for
effective auricular therapy.  It's well established that you have
to be extremely site-specific.  If I do auricular therapy, I'm
using a spring-loaded probe so I don't get any false readings
around the ear.  The tip of the probe is small, it's about the size
of a fine point ball pen, and if you move it the width of the point
away from the spot, you won't get a good effect.  
	Yet auricular therapy is dramatic in its effects when you are
in the right spot.  In true auricular therapy you stimulate a
series of points, not just one.  You can do a modified form of
auricular therapy with CES using longer term stimulation if you're
fairly precise.  I have seen results, as an example, in back pain
where we could not get a satisfactory effect by working on the body
part, but just by putting the ear electrodes over the points
corresponding to the area of the spine that has the problem, for
ten minutes, and I've seen people who couldn't move suddenly be
able to get up.  However, this is not the best way to do auricular
therapy.  You can't get to the organ with any CES electrode that
I've ever seen.  You can only get to the muscular/skeletal system. 
I have seen results with that.

MBR:	One thing that I've noticed from some CES devices, including
using the Alpha-Stim 350, is that there will be a surge of
lightheadedness or dizziness for a period of time.

KIRSCH:  When you get dizzy, you're actually following the current
going back and forth with sense organs that you don't need to use. 
It should be below that level.  Consider that an indicator you have
the current up to high. 

MBR:  In the milliampere range would there be effects such as

KIRSCH:	Well, it depends on the polarization of the wave form. 
If they are using a DC current it would be harmful.  Dr. Robert O.
Becker found there is a DC current in the white matter, I believe,
and that it controls the nervous system as we classically look at
it in traditional neurophysiology, and which is essentially an
electrochemical phenomenon.  
	On the most basic level, all atoms have an electrical bonding
and also every cell in the body has a membrane potential across the
cell membrane.  Each cell in the body functions like a little
battery.  In the simplest metaphorical explanation of
electrotherapy, it seems that if we can charge up those batteries,
they work better.  I say that only partially in jest, because we
take measurements and we see that there is a capacitance in the
tissues that are stimulated.  If they are stimulated correctly and
long enough, we can correlate the higher post-treatment reading
with a successful result.  It's certainly been observed by numerous

MBR:  With what devices would you measure that?
KIRSCH:	Take for example the Alpha-Stim 2000 which is no longer
on the market but is in use by many doctors.  If they have a pain
related complaint they can just locate the problem by finding a
low area of conductivity compared to the surrounding tissue.  A
baseline is set for that area and by stimulating the less
conductive tissue until it holds a charge (what we call the "post-
treatment response") we consistently see good clinical results. 
I could take someone with a back pain that is spread out over a
large area of their back and work on them for a few minutes until
I find an area that has a poor post-treatment response, meaning
that it doesn't hold a charge;  there's no capacitance after the
treatment.  Once I get that charged up I can ask the patient to
reevaluate their pain and it will generally be less or be gone. 
Whereas, prior to that, if I asked the patient to reevaluate their
pain I would hear that it had not changed, even if I stimulated the
area a lot, if I hadn't found the right spot and I hadn't gotten
that correct reading.  Even if I find the right spot, I may have
to stimulate somewhere else and go back and re-measure that initial
spot to effect a positive change.  Once I see that change is
effective, then I know--I don't even have to ask the patient: I


BECKER:  When Meg Patterson used CES it was for a serious medical
condition that was potentially life-threatening, namely addiction
to hard drugs.  On a risk/benefit ratio basis I have absolutely no
problem with that. I'd say "go ahead and use it."  But when you're
saying, "I'm going to put this on your head and you'll do your
homework better," I part company.  There, my risk/benefit ratio is
skewed heavily toward the risk.  Bob Beck is an engineer and he
makes interesting devices.  The BT-5 is only one of them. But his
fund of knowledge, when you get into the biological area, is
understandably not as complete as someone who's worked in the
biological field for a lot of years.  His knowledge of the rest of
the information on pleasant side effects of frequencies on the
brain, long-term, is similarly fragmented. So if Beck is going to
use his Tuner for the treatment of drug addiction, I don't have any
objections.  If he is going to use it to make people smarter, I
have lots of objections.

MBR:	You've mentioned your impression of the people who had used
Meg Patterson's so-called black box had undergone personality
changes. One of the things people have expressed interest in when
they are approaching CES devices is that there is some anecdotal
evidence that people do experience personality changes, that they
experience what they call heightened states of consciousness or
high-efficiency brain states, peak-performance states. Many people
are interested in using the devices for that purpose explicitly. 
What would you say about the cost/benefits ratio in that case,
given that some people are willing to, for example, climb rocks
faces mountains to achieve peak experiences?

BECKER:  There isn't an awful lot of risk in meditational
techniques, which I'm told will get you to the same state too. 
	There is another set of phenomena known as brain tumors -
that's with an "M."  And the evidence gets clearer with each report
that the brain is one of the target organs for abnormal
electromagnetic fields and that a result of this is precisely the
development in the incidence of malignancies of the central nervous
system.  That's an unpleasant fact that I think people have to keep
in mind.  

MBR:	One of the things that makers of CES devices claim is that
their devices are using fields and frequencies that have been found
to be beneficial or not harmful.  Are you aware of any evidence?

BECKER:	I don't have any evidence.

MBR:	Does that evidence exist at all?

BECKER:	I don't think it does.  I will agree that the frequencies
that are involved are those that one normally encounters in the
brain, so to a certain extent, this is a mitigating circumstance. 
It says, well the probability of a bad effect is probably not as
great as it would be with a 60 cycle or a 1000 cycle or something
in that nature.  Something far removed from what you can normally
expect to find and from what you find in the earth's geomagnetic
environment.  On the other hand, what about the power density? And
therein I'm not so sure.  I think before you can say that these
have been proven to be beneficial and non-harmful, you should have
some data to back it up and I don't see that data.
	I would trust that no one is going to put the Brain Tuner on
a young child; however, knowing how people are, I wouldn't be too
surprised to find out that it has happened.  We have a couple of
studies that to me are very frightening that indicate that exposure
of the newborn for a relatively short period of time, a week, two
weeks, to a 60 cycle field doesn't result in any overt alteration
immediately or for some time after the exposure.  These animals
look the same, act the same, eat the same amount, gain the same
weight, don't have any cancer.  But, if you wait until they reach
what we would call, in human terms, late adolescence or young
adulthood, and then test them in their ability to learn, they are
statistically significantly slower.  So, the moral of that story
is, don't fool around with the kids because we really don't know
what we are dealing with here.  
	I just feel that enthusiasm is fine in research, and research
carries with it risks, and as long as your subjects are aware of
the risks and have the choice of doing it or not doing it, fine and
dandy. And as long as good solid data are going to be compiled, I
don't have any problem with doing this sort of study.  I do have
a problem though when you begin to talk, like Bob Beck does, of all
the great benefits that you are going to derive from sticking his
electrodes on your head.  I'm not sure and I don't advise it.  

BECK: Robert O. Becker has suggested that a certain type of
electromagnetic energy could accelerate the growth of cancer cells. 
And this got into the general culture. Now I have tremendous
respect for Dr. Becker.  I consider him No. 1 on the Nobel Prize
list forever--he's been nominated several times, and I think he
deserves it.  But I'm in disagreement with him on this because I
don't believe there is any clinical study to show that Becker's
claim is an actuality.  Although, I certainly made sure that the
BT-5 instructions take a conservative position.  They contain a
prohibition, "Do not use with pregnant women, do not use with
epileptics, and do not use with anyone who has any indication of
brain tumors." 
	But there has been no evidence that electrical stimulation
has caused brain cancer. I was tremendously worried about this back
in 1983, when I took apart a lot of the Soviet and Danish and
Oriental devices, and back engineered them for the maximum
production of neurotransmitters.  But my fears appear to be
unfounded.  So I don't know, I think that it's theoretically
possible, but we haven't seen a lot of evidence of that.  I'd
really like to see some good studies that address that problem.  

MBR:  So, in your view, then, the rewards that are very well    
documented outweigh vague fears of long-term risks from certain
kinds of exposure, although other kinds of exposure clearly do have
negative effects?

BECK:  Yes.  The primary exposure that causes skin cancer is in
the electromagnetic spectrum in the shortwave ultraviolet.  Now
that clearly causes skin cancer--sunlight.  There are many other
things that can cause skin cancer.  But I don't believe that the
electrical, which is down at the bottom of the basement--a long,
long, long way from the ultraviolet--can cause it.  
	I believe that since a lot of neurotransmitters are stirred
up, this type of stimulation may provoke spontaneous remissions of
a number of conditions.
  	I remember when people wouldn't eat tomatoes, they were
considered poisonous.  I think that time will show that, yes, it's
good to be cautious, but this position was an over-precaution. 

MBR:  Which position?

BECK:  Becker's warning that all electrical fields can potentially
cause cancer.
	We know that magnetic fields in the low frequency end . . .
for example, 60 Hz power lines appear to correlate with leukemia
clusters.  I believe that's been established in spite of the
entrenched "scientific establishment" viewpoint which Dr. Becker
has challenged for decades.  
	But that's a magnetic vector.  They've tried putting the
electrical vector in, and nothing happens.  When they put it in
the magnetic field, yes.  Cranial electrostimulators, of course,
put out an electrical signal.  There is no solenoid coil there like
in a Mood Pacer that could cause a magnetic field--although there
would be an extremely weak magnetic component to the microamperage
current going into the skin, with about one-thousandth of that
reaching the brain cells because of the conductivity and
resistivity of the brain tissue--but that's an extremely weak
magnetic field, far below even the levels that concern Dr. Becker
from what I understand.

MBR: Dr. Becker expresses some fears that this type of direct
electrical stimulation could produce electrolysis in the cells.

BECK:  Well, it most certainly can in a direct current device.  In
the late sixties the bright and shining hope of the
anaesthesiologist was electroanaesthesia.  They used about a 700
Hz square wave at 35 milliamperes, directly through the brain. 
And there was a direct current component there, which naturally
caused electrolysis of the sodium potassium membranes and other
	A good metaphor is to imagine a troop of soldiers marching
across a bridge.  The soldiers that start out at one end of the
bridge will get to the other side and go wherever they're going. 
That causes electrolysis.  But if you use bi-phasic or alternating
or self-canceling direct current, which means that the algebraic
sum of the positive going wave is exactly the same as the negative,
it would be like the soldiers just marching halfway down the
bridge, reversing, marching halfway down the bridge in the other
direction.  Nobody would ever get to the other side.  So there
could be no electrolysis.  
	There is no electrolysis except in many TENS units where there
is a direct current component in the output.  Of course there is
no direct current output in the BT-5.  But if you used a TENS unit
which is designed to cause electrolysis, say in the lumbar area,
and applied it above the neck, you could very definitely cause
damage.  In a properly designed CES, they're all bi-phasic.  I
haven't seen one yet that had any DC in it.  So you're talking
about two entirely different things.
	Dr. Becker is totally correct if you're dealing with non-
biphasic DC.  Even if you're dealing with AC, there's no
electrolysis.  If it electroplates a molecule in one direction,
then, one-thousandth of a second later it electroplates it in the
opposite direction so there's no net movement, no migration, no

MBR:	Dr. Kirsch, what about effects such as electrolysis?

KIRSCH:  Well, it depends on the polarization of the wave form,
with a DC current it would be harmful.  But as I said before,
the Alpha-Stim works by using a biphasic DC current that goes in
one direction and then goes in the other, resulting in a zero net
polarity.  This won't cause electrolysis.  And to my knowledge very
few currently available CES devices would cause electrolysis.
	I have a few comments about Dr. Becker's general cautions as
well.  The medical model in which Dr. Becker was trained says, in
the absence of disease or injury, "We don't have a problem."  But
my feeling is that the quality of life has a great deal of value. 
If you can raise that a point or two on an imaginary scale, that's
miraculous!  That's the reason that this whole "Megabrain movement"
has attracted so much interest.  Obviously people do want to
improve the quality of their lives.  That's what it all boils down
	Dr. Becker is a basic science researcher, and as I've
mentioned, a brilliant one.  But you have to understand that when
you hang around a laboratory wearing a white coat, you're looking
to dissect problems down to their discrete answers.  
	My degree is in neurobiology and I have a very similar
risk/reward criticism of neurosurgery on the brain.  With every
theory we have of brain function, there are clinical exceptions. 
Yet in this legal system we have scientific theories which are
nothing more than working hypotheses on the basis of which we
perform major invasive procedures like surgery on the brain.  To
me, that's pretty amazing.  
	On the other hand, when you are talking about passing a few
electrons that have a zero net polarity through the brain, I think
you are talking about a very minor possibility of change. 
Additionally, cranial electrostimulation has been around for a long
time.  In crude form, it's been around since the turn of the
century, if not before that.  Certainly the Russians have used it
actively for thirty years or more.  There have been no reports of
major problems, and it's probably gone through three generations-
-of human testing (as opposed to animals).  With all drugs, there
are side effects.  Yet, with electromedicine we haven't seen
anything close to the kind of side effects associated with most

MBR:  Dr. Becker points to research, his own and others, showing
that electrical stimulation seems to have the capacity to turn on
growth in cancerous cells.

KIRSCH:  And the opposite.  It depends it on the type of electrical
	You can't talk about electrical stimulation as one topic any
more than you can talk about pharmacology as one topic.  Nobody
questions that Digitalis and Aspirin are different and have
different effects and contraindications.  And yet people frequently
seem to think that all electrical stimulation is the same.  To
isolate one aspect of the electrical wave form (such as the
frequency) from the entire wave form, is like isolating the color
of the pill from the ingredients in the pill.  All white pills are
certainly not the same.  There is no reason to suspect all forms
of electrical stimulation of promoting the growth of cancer cells.

MBR:  So you are not concerned about long-term effects?
KIRSCH:   Well, in a very pure scientific manner, as is accepted
in the medical model, one can express concerns about long-term
effects that we don't see yet.  That is legitimate, at least in
principle.  But I work with electrostimulation professionally and
I've done extensive research with it.  I've read almost all the
literature and I've experienced lots of CES myself, and I don't
think we are going to see harmful long-term effects.  I think that
the safety has already been established.

                          SCALAR FIELDS

[Perhaps the hottest topic in the field of bioelectricity is that
of the mysterious, seemingly paranormal "scalar" fields, and the
development of devices that generate such fields and use them to
modulate and, it is claimed, to heal biological systems.]

MBR: Could you explain what "scalar" means?  

PETER LINDEMANN: Scalar is a terminology that's been popularized
by the work of Thomas Bearden.  It is used in the scientific
vocabulary to denote the opposite of vector.  A vector is something
that has both velocity and direction.  A scalar is something that
has neither velocity nor direction.  A crude way to suggest the
nature of scalar phenomena is to compare wind and air.  Wind is a
vector phenomenon, because it has velocity and a direction.  But
air is a scalar phenomenon.  It has neither.  No matter what
direction I go or how fast or slow, as long as I'm on the surface
of the planet, there's air.  So air would be analogous to scalar
phenomena.  A scalar is something that is direction-and-velocity

ELDON BYRD:  In this field there is a lot of controversy over what
scalar is all about.  My definition is very simple.  A scalar is
something that isn't a vector.  As such it doesn't have a
direction.  A scalar field would be one which isn't moving either
in time or space.  Once you take something like an electrostatic
charge and move it up and down space and time, it then becomes a
vector.  It's really tough to get scalars out of electromagnetic
vectors.  It's almost impossible.  
	I think a much better description of a scalar is that it is
a piece of information.  For example, consider voltage.  Voltage
doesn't have a direction.  Current has a direction, but voltage
doesn't have a direction.  It's a potential, "scalar" quantity. 
And, if you can induce voltage at a distance, that's a scalar
field.  We have no instruments, for example, that will measure
voltage directly.  We have indications on meter faces that say so
many volts, but what they are really doing is sucking current out
of a source, or measuring current coming from somewhere, and
running it through some kind of known resistance that enables the
meter to calculate voltage. But it doesn't measure it directly. 
So, voltage is a scalar quantity.  
	I gave a demonstration at a psychotronic conference a couple
of years ago where I said, "I can take two scalar quantities and
convert the scalar potential into an electromagnetic signal."  I
used voltage--two 9-volt radio batteries--and what I did was just
put the terminals together, plus to minus, minus to plus, and in
a few moments it got so hot you couldn't handle it.  I said, "All
the current is circulating internal to the batteries, but it is
converting into heat which is radiating from the batteries as an
electromagnetic wave.  So I have two DC devices with a scalar
potential, each one, and I just plug them together and I get an
electromagnetic wave out of them."  So you can convert scalars into
	I look at scalars strictly as information.  I have written a
theoretical paper on this which has been published now.  It
describes scalars straight out of the textbook.  The scalar form
of Maxwell's Equations.  I just took this information and said,
Could it be that we live in a sea of information?  Not in the form
of electromagnetic energy, not acoustic energy, but a whole other
form of energy which we currently have no instruments to measure. 
It's a sea of information.  It's just there, it is.  It doesn't
take any time for it to propagate from one point in time and space
to another because it has nothing to do with time and space. 
Scalars are just information, and they are not bound by the same
laws that govern matter or energy.  It's just information.  It has
no mass; it has no direction: it's not a vector; it's not a
physical quantity.  It's information.  I think this is a sea of
information that we are floating in.

MBR:  That sounds suggestive of Rupert Sheldrake's "morphogenetic

BYRD: Yes, it does. Sheldrake's "morphogenetic field" might be a
scalar type of field, an information field

BOB BECK:  A scalar wave would be a first cousin to the terms in
the Maxwell equations, "DC-DT" and "DA-DT".  A stands for area, DA
is a change of area of the propagation of the signal as it travels
from the source.  Now in electromagnetics as it is used in the
Maxwell equations and in all radio communication, power
transmission, etc., the terms DC-DT and DA-DT have long been
considered imaginary, like the square root of -1, or the "J
operator," which is an imaginary term in electrical engineering,
but without which we could not have had streetcars or power
	There is a component in electromagnetic technology which does
not carry power, per se.  You can't warm up a toaster with it.  It
carries information only.  This is the scalar component.  Scalars
are a perhaps imaginary perhaps not imaginary vector that carries
information without power.  To get power you need voltage and
current.  The way that we measure power in watts is amperes
multiplied times voltage.  But the scalar has none of that at all. 
There is no energy in it, just information.  It's a very rich field
for exploration.  With scalars we are about where the Wright
Brothers were with their flying box kite at Kitty Hawk.  I've read
all of Tom Bearden's magnificent mathematically constructed
speculations in this area.  They're fascinating, but nobody knows
quite what to make of it altogether.  The jury is still out.

REIN:  Conceptually we are talking about a more fundamental field
than an electromagnetic field.  Mathematically, electromagnetic
fields are just derivatives of the scalar field, so that the scalar
field is a more fundamental form of energy.  The scalar field can
be looked at as a component of the electromagnetic field which is
always there but is swamped by the electromagnetic field, so we
haven't noticed it in the past.  It's traditionally considered much
weaker in amplitude, but it's where all the information is carried. 
Because of this, experimentally, you can actually cancel out
electromagnetic fields, eliminating the strong outer shell and
leaving behind only this scalar information matrix field, which is
the underlying field behind the electromagnetic field.  
	In theory, this scalar information field can be measured. 
Electrical engineers who are attuned to this way of thinking claim
that we can measure them.  But in practice we have problems being
able to distinguish between measuring electromagnetic and measuring
the scalar.  My particular approach was to use biological systems
as detectors for this kind of energy.  

MBR: Do scalars have different biological effects than ordinary
electromagnetic fields or waves?

LINDEMANN: I believe so.  Most of the attention about these pulsed
electromagnetic field devices has been focused on how the magnetic
field is affecting the body.  From my research I think that's the
wrong question.  I don't think it is the magnetic field that is
keying the body.  I think it's this scalar propagation that's
keying the body, and when you take the magnetic components and you
make them infinitesimally small, and these scalar propagations
quite large, you get very large biological responses.  The body
feels very relaxed with it.  You can get these types of
propagations with ordinary coils, but the rise time on your wave-
-in other words, how fast the transition is between on and off--
has to be very very large.  So you get a very very sharp
transition.  And you can get biological responses with very very
sharp transmissions in ordinary magnetic field propagations.  But
you tend get these irritating side effects along with it.  And of
course what I'm talking about is subjective.  It's only an
indication that there's something to look for.  I think science is
lagging pretty far behind in its understanding of these things
simply because we can propagate these scalars very easily, but we
don't have any way to measure them directly.  So the
instrumentation for the study of these phenomena haven't been
developed yet.

MBR:  Could we call your BioPacer and Centron devices scalar

LINDEMANN:  Yes.  If you take a wire and wrap five turns around a
core, clockwise, and you put a direct current pulse on this, it
will propagate a magnetic field with a north pole at one end and
a south pole at the other end.  If you then turn the wire around
and wrap five turns in the opposite direction and put a current
through it, the first five turns produce one magnetic field in one
orientation, and the second five turns create another magnetic
field oriented exactly opposite the first.  You can project these
two magnetic fields in the exact same place.  If you don't have a
metal core, so there's no tendency to magnetize in either
direction, the two magnetic fields can be made to propagate in
exactly the same place at exactly the same strength, apparently
cancelling each other out.  
	This creates what you might call a "compression wave in the
inertial frame", or in the "life force".  It can also be called a
"scalar field" or a "third order effect".  Simultaneous self-
cancelled magnetic fields were studied pretty extensively in the
60's by a man named Hooper.  He called this effect the "motional
electric field".  That is the field caused by the motion of
electricity.  And he said that it had a lot of characteristics
which made it look similar to gravity, or a simulated gravitational
field.  I had studied a lot of these things and found that, when
you pulse these motional electric fields, or cancelled magnetic
fields, these third order effect gets very large very rapidly while
the magnetic effects can remain very small.  
	In electrical science, if you have the simultaneous
propagation of more than three fields in the same place you have
what is considered by definition a scalar propagation.  And in a
flat backwound spiral coil of the kind that I have described, we
have by definition four fluxes in the same area:  The self-
induction of the coil; the mutual induction between the windings;
the self-capacitance of the coil; and the mutual capacitance
between the windings.  And these show up as four specific fields
of either dialectric or magnetic field strength.  In these flat
wound coils (which Tesla was the first one to experiment with) you
can get a high degree of interaction between the inductance and
capacitance, creating what is called a scalar.  
	My devices put a DC pulse through the spiral, creating what
would technically be called a "space scalar", which is AC, or
alternating in time.  So it's not a time scalar.  It's a space
scalar which is either there or not, depending what moment in time
you're talking about.  So it's alternating in time and scalar in
space.  That's the technical definition of the types of
propagations which seem to have caused fairly large biological
responses in these so-called pulsed electromagnetic field

MBR: Are scalars fields then, or waves?

LINDEMANN: It's an area of influence, really.  Waves, by
definition, have velocity and direction, so waves are vector, not
scalar.  Some of the literature talks about the propagation of
scalar "waves."  This is an oxymoron.  If you go back to the actual
definitions of these terms, you can't have a scalar wave. 

BYRD:  What it takes to produce a scalar at a point in space is
simply to take two signals and have them intersect and cancel each
other out.  If you have scalar information riding piggy-back on the
electromagnetic information, when you cancel the electromagnetic
signals, all you have left is the scalar information.  
	That is the way that we think the Soviets were communicating
with their submarines.  The Soviet "woodpecker" signal was really
two transmitters (eventually they had up to 12) beaming information
to a point in space.  If they have the information riding on just
one of the electromagnetic signals, where does that information go
when they cancel the carriers?  It just dumps right there locally
where the cancellation occurs.  If you have the right instrument,
you can pick it up.  It made their transmissions rather secure,
because we had no idea what they were doing, and I don't think we
understand it fully even now. 

BECK:  There is also a growing class of diagnostic devices that in
the hands of a proper operator will do miraculous diagnostic
routines on a computer.  I have in mind the Interro, which was
designed by a top scientist I worked with, Roy Curtin, who claims
that the information is carried by means of a scalar, not current
or magnetic line of force.  There is another machine called the
Vega which is the German first cousin to the Interro, and there's
Doug Lieberman's Computron.  There are also the Indumed, a very
famous German device of Wolfgang Ludwig and the Mora device, all
of which use similar technology.  Some of them seem to be
inconsistent.  They either work for the particular operator or they
don't.  When they work, however, they seem to be able to generate
highly accurate, detailed, and exotic information about each
particular patient.

MBR:  These devices are getting information from the human body?

BECK:  Yes.  They're getting information from the acupuncture    
points on the fingers and toes. 

MBR:  You think the body can generate and sense these so-called
scalar information fields?

BECK:  Yes, I believe there are ways of generating demonstrable
scalars.  In fact, I've done this in the presence of Robert O.
Becker, and he's observed the effects on a subject in my hotel room
during the World Research Council Conference several years ago. The
subject was Brendan O'Regan, the Director of the Institute of
Noetic Sciences.  Brendan asked what a scalar felt like.  So I took
a pocket comb out my shirt pocket, combed my hair and put an
electrostatic field on my polyester pants leg about at the knee,
and I got another few electrons on the comb by combing my hair
again, and I moved the comb back and forth at a certain frequency
that we won't talk about. It darned near knocked him off the bed! 
He was sitting on the bed, and for two or three days he was saying
he had never felt anything so strange in his life.  You can
demonstrate this effect on perhaps 35% of the population by
manipulating an electrostatic, not electromagnetic, field.  The
only thing that measures this is an electrometer, an impedance volt
meter that sees static charge and not electrical or magnetic.
	I used to demonstrate this at lectures, and standing at the
podium holding an ordinary pocket comb or plastic pen I could
influence about one-third of the audience back to about the fifth
or sixth row.  They would describe very strange sensations.  This
was not placebo or suggestion, because even when the person's back
is turned to you, they can immediately identify when you are waving
that charged object and when you aren't.  
	Have there been any applications of this to medical
instruments?  To my knowledge, there have not.  The only things in
the electrostatic domain with which most people are familiar are
negative ion generators.  And that's the only contemporary device
I know of myself, excepting museum pieces from the turn of the
century, which used electrostatic effects as a direct medical
	However, it's an extremely rich field.  There is a great
potential here for destructive use as well as constructive.  I've
done a number of briefings relating to this for the Pentagon and
Joint Chiefs of Staff.  I briefed the Senate Committee on Science
& Technology several years ago about an effect discovered in 1936
by the British Admiralty.  The entire ionosphere can be charged
with an electromagnetic signal in a way that can be used to
influence the behavior of people over a very broad area.  But
that's semi-dark, and I'm not comfortable about talking about that
publicly in detail.

MBR:  To pursue the concept of scalars, if this is an information
field of some sort, then devices that generate scalars could
conceivably be used to induce information into people, or influence

BECK:  Absolutely.

MBR:  Are you aware of any research in this area?

BECK:  Yes, I am, but it's pretty dark.  Dark meaning that
unfortunately our government looks at any new technology for
possible use as weaponry, a typical example being the atom bomb. 
Any new discoveries are looked at for military purposes rather than
what they can do for people.  Yes, I am familiar with some work in
this field.

MBR:	You say we exist in a scalar "sea of information." Is there
some way of translating this information so that it becomes
apprehendable by our senses?

ELDON BYRD:  Well, there are certain talented people who seem to
be able to tap into it, like some very gifted psychics I've run
across.  I have no other explanation for how they can access
information other than to presume that they may tap into this
field.  These are people who can take the meagerest information
about a person and come up with all kinds of things that only the
person themselves knew about.  The best psychics that I've run
across don't even know what they're saying.  They go into some
channelling information-gathering mode and they have to tape record
what they've said because they have no idea what they are saying. 
It is as though they are being used as a channel for the
information, from wherever it is to the "real world" here.  But,
I don't know of any way to measure scalars using instruments.  
	It's been done indirectly by Glen Rein.  He did an experiment
that shows that the Teslar watch will cause an effect on living
human cells in a petri dish in a laboratory with a chip in it that
produces a scalar field, but not when the chip is taken out.  As
far as I can determine, the only difference between the output of
the watch in the two cases is a scalar effect.

MBR: How did you come to do this experiment Dr. Rein?

GLEN REIN:  I've been interested in the idea of using
electromagnetic fields to modulate and heal biological systems for
a long time.  Therefore I've been looking at a wide variety of
effects both with electromagnetic and unconventional,
nonelectromagnetic or non-hertzian fields.

MBR:  Would these be scalar?

REIN:  Yes. There's a lot of words going around for these
nonelectromagnetic fields and scalar is certainly one.  Quantum
fields is another.  My approach is to use biological systems to
detect these subtle nonelectromagnetic or scalar energies, with
the hope of being able to understand the mechanism of action, and
thereby being able to distinguish between the two types of fields. 
We know that biological systems are sensitive to these subtle
quantum non-hertzian fields, but there really had been no proper
scientific studies.
	There are different ways of generating these kinds of fields. 
The first series of experiments that I did was working with a
healer, because a lot of people hypothesize that healers give off
more than just electromagnetic fields since psychic healing can
occur over distance and time.  The operation of psychics has
properties which are very similar to the nonhertzian quantum
fields.  So, the first series of experiments that I did was working
with healers.
	Then I met up with an engineer, Ted Gagnon, who had designed
a special modified "caduceus" coil [Ed. note: named after the staff
wound with two intertwined snakes, carried by Hermes] which
canceled the electromagnetic fields.  I've been using that system
to investigate what's commonly referred to as scalar fields and
their biological effects.  
	In the third series of experiments I did, was working with
the Teslar watch, the watch originally designed by Andrija
Puharich, and now marketed by ELF International.  
	The difference between all these three sources of subtle
energy is in frequency, and, of course, healers are complex and I
have some evidence that different states of consciousness can have
different biological effects.  We know that different frequencies
cause different biological effects.  Therefore it's logical to
conclude that in different states of consciousness a healer can
generate a different frequency spectrum, which then in turn affects
the biological system differently.  And you could even get an
inhibition of a biological effect based on the kind of energy
output.  This applies to the electromagnetic fields as well.  So
we don't know that the frequency specificity is a big issue.  And
60 Hz turns out to be not such a good frequency.  
	Conceptually, the work that I have been doing is the first
application of these kind of quantum nonhertzian fields to
biological systems.  The implication from the research, aside from
showing the fact that they do cause biological effects, is the fact
that I've been able to show the same set of frequencies are more
biologically effective in non-electromagnetic fields.  In comparing
a signal delivered through a conventional electromagnetic field
using a Helmholtz coil, for example, versus the same sort of
frequencies where the electromagnetic field is canceled out and you
have the non-hertzian or scalar left behind, even using the exact
same set of frequencies and keeping all other variables constant,
the scalar fields turned out to be anywhere between three and five
times more biologically active. 
 	That's also the first time a direct comparison like that has
been done.  The critics of the bioelectromagnetics community have
looked at the effects due to conventional electromagnetic fields
and said, "These effects that are observed are so weak, and the
body is in a state of homeostasis.  If you give such a tiny bit of
a push to the body, you're not really going to have any profound
healing going on."  Now the evidence is suggesting that these
scalar fields are much more biologically active and could be what's
causing the actual healing process, or activating the physiological
	In that regard I advanced a theory I call the "crystalline
transduction theory," which proposes that electromagnetic fields
in the environment can be converted into scalar fields in the
liquid crystals of the cell membranes around each cell. Therefore,
the electromagnetic fields are just a first line information
carrier, and when that field hits the cell it gets converted to the
scalar, and that's what in turn causes the profound physiological
changes that are associated with my experimental data--as well as
phenomena of psychic healing and psychotronics and radionics, and
all of the devices which generate scalar fields.

MBR:  Could you give us a brief summary of your research in that

REIN:  Okay.  The biological endpoints that I've been measuring
are two types of cells, nerve cells and immune cells.  I'm
classically trained as a neurochemist, and came to Stanford to
study neuroimmunology, the interaction between those two systems. 
In studying the response of biological systems to these subtle
energy fields, the responses of just one isolated system are
interesting, of course, but the body is a holistic, complicated
interaction of many different systems.  So it seemed to me that
the interaction between the nervous system and the immune system
was really a key way in which you could study in vitro, with tissue
culture cells, the simulated events that occur in the body.  
	I am using the tissue culture model system because of the
complicated problems that you get into when you work with clinical
patients, placebo effects as being one of the main complicating
factors, also diet and emotional states.  It's hard to be able to
definitively say that this subtle energy or even electromagnetic
energy that you expose a person to is causing the effects, when we
know that there're so many things that can also cause profound
biological effects.  So the advantage of working in tissue culture
is that you can eliminate all of those variables.  If you can
measure an effect at the cellular level, you can certainly make
some pretty definitive statements. 
	In practice, what I've actually done is to measure the ability
of a nerve cell to "take up" a neurotransmitter.  When extra
neurotransmitter is released into the synaptic cleft, the nerve
cell takes it back up and metabolizes it.  It's a way of
controlling the levels of the neurotransmitters.  In previous work
I had actually measured the levels of the neurotransmitters in
healers, which led me to become interested in how the amounts of
these neurotransmitters are regulated.  One of the ways is by this
uptake mechanism.  
	I was able to show that both electromagnetic fields and scalar
fields inhibit the uptake of neurotransmitters into nerve cells. 
And the scalar fields were three to five times more biologically
active than the electromagnetic.  It's interesting to note that
tricyclic antidepressants as a general class of drugs also work in
the same way.  In other words, if someone is depressed, they would
very possibly have lower amounts of the neurotransmitter in their
brain.  So by preventing the uptake, you allow more
neurotransmitter to be present in the nerves in the brain.  

MBR:  So it's stimulating or arousing.

REIN:  Right.  The circular system that I've been looking at is
the noradrenaline or norepinephrine system.  There are many
different neurotransmitter systems in the brain, but these studies
have been directed specifically at one particular neurotransmitter
system.  It's very complicated because they all interact with one
another and obviously this kind of research has to be continued if
we are to understand the interactive nature of the systems, but as
a first step, it's certainly encouraging that we could observe
effects of this magnitude in the first place!  
	The next experiments I did were with the immune system.  In
this case I took some human lymphocytes or T cells, which are a
member of the white blood cell family that's primarily involved
with fighting off infections and protecting the body from foreign
invaders and is definitely involved with all kinds of depressed
immune system diseases like cancer and AIDS.  In both of those
cases, there is a depressed amount of the lymphocytes and a
decreased response.  Normally these cells grow when the right
stimulus comes along, and in the absence of the stimulus or with
an altered, sick cell, they cannot rejuvenate themselves, so the
amounts keep going down.  So what I did in tissue culture was to
activate these cells and add the natural substance which would
normally cause them to divide and see whether or not I could
enhance that process with an electromagnetic field and with a
scalar field.  These experiments were done with normal people,
because I didn't have access to blood from diseased individuals. 
The first step was to see if there were any effects with normal
blood.  And the effect that we observed was a very, very pronounced
stimulation of the growth of these lymphocytes or T cells--to the
tune of twentyfold with the scalar field!

MBR:  Twentyfold with the scalar field compared to the
electromagnetic field?

REIN:  Compared to nothing!  The scalar field actually stimulated
the cell growth to that kind of magnitude.  This is basically
unheard of in the bioelectromagnetics community, where typically
you would get effects in the range of 20 or maybe 40 percent.
Twentyfold is in another category entirely!  So I was quite
	I was interested in knowing whether we might have just bumped
across the right set of frequencies which really turn on the
lymphocytes.  Maybe everybody else in the bioelectromagnetics
community was just looking at the wrong frequencies.  There's a
lot of work done with 60 Hz because the power line companies fund
the research.  There's a lot of work done with 16 Hz because Ross
Adey had discovered that had an effect on calcium release from
nerve cells.  Maybe these people were just using the wrong
frequencies, maybe we just happened to get lucky and find the right
set of frequencies which trigger these cells to go crazy! 
 	I therefore took the same frequency information and put it
into a regular Helmholtz coil--which does not generate a scalar,
but generated a regular electromagnetic field.  In that case the
biological response of the cells was very strong, but again three
to five times less than the response to the scalar field. 
Obviously the electromagnetic field by itself will do some good,
but when you add the scalar component, the biological system really
takes off!

MBR:  And what frequency were you working with?

R:  The frequencies were actually designed and predicted by my
colleague, Mr. Gagnon, but he ended up giving me a very complex
series of sine waves in a RF kilohertz frequency range, a very
complicated signal.  The short answer is that it's a radio
frequency modulated by very low frequencies, one to two cycles per
second, so we have the best of both worlds.

MBR: What are the most intriguing implications of scalar theory?

REIN: The theoretical quantum physics has developed a very
elaborate mathematical and physical description of scalar fields
and their properties.  The implications of the mathematics are very
unusual and intriguing.  Scalar fields have rather . . . paranormal
properties.  They travel faster than the speed of light; they're
distance and time independent (unlike electromagnetic fields which
fall off at one over the distance squared); they act at a distance;
they can have negative energy; they even have the characteristic
of being able to travel backwards in time! 
	Some of these concepts may seem a little far out, but quantum
physics has started to address these kinds of questions, and it
turns out that there is actual experimental evidence for time
reversal, for example.  Although these are theoretical, and the
physicist has this complicated theoretical model to describe the
properties of these fields, it turns out it's more than theory. 
They actually are beginning to be able to measure some of these
bizarre properties.  
	These same properties may well end up turning out to be the
underlying mechanism that will explain things like telepathy and
psychic healing.

MBR:  And time travel, perhaps [laughter].

REIN: Yeah, well time reversal, going backwards in time, seems to
be one of their characteristic properties.  A skeptic would say,
"these are occurring at a microscopic level, not at a macroscopic
level; there's a big jump from saying that these properties apply
at the atomic level to saying they apply at the macroscopic level." 
But recent results in quantum physics are actually showing that,
"Yes, they can actually occur at a macroscopic level."  That's
where it gets really exciting--all you need is one example, and all
of a sudden it's "Oh boy, what's going on!"

MBR:  So this scalar research represents potential breakthroughs,
and potentially new visions of reality, in a number of different

REIN:  Right.  This idea of scalars has been applied to the study
of consciousness and other healing mechanisms.  The problem has
been that there has been very little direct experimental evidence
in terms of biological systems.  There's even a very little bit of
evidence that these kind of fields have macroscopic effects,
although this is just beginning to show up.  The government is
doing some covert research in scalars, but we don't know to what
extent they're doing biological experiments.  But I believe that
I'm one of the first, if not the first person to come up with some
direct experimental evidence of the biological effects of scalar

MBR:  Your experimental evidence indicates that these scalar fields
might have beneficial effects. But then we would have to surmise
that by the same token there could be harmful effects.

REIN:  Yes, that's right.

MBR:  At a different frequency perhaps, or different intensity?

REIN:  Absolutely.  Some of the properties of the electromagnetic
field and their interactions with cells may also apply.  In that
case different frequencies and amplitudes can have opposite
effects. Tom Bearden has been talking a lot about the potential
hazards of these kinds of fields.  That's why the whole field is
completely wide open, and it's very exciting.  
	According to the theory, one reason that the scalars are so
powerful in their biological effects is because they can affect
the nucleus.  Electromagnetic fields predominantly affect the
electrons.  The nucleus is not really altered.  It may be shaken
up a little bit when electromagnetic fields are absorbed and
radiated in an interaction between energy and matter.  Generally
speaking, the nucleus is not altered in any way.  This is
theoretical, but if it turns out to be true that the scalars can
actually modify the nucleus, you can potentially cause very
profound biological effects.  Powerful effects have already been
observed, but this suggests transmutation of matter, being able to
make very, very profound manifestations in our three-dimensional

MBR:  So this leads us back to alchemy.

REIN:  There we go.  Exactly.  There's a link there for sure. 
Another theory proposes that the scalar energy is coming from
higher dimensions and that it interacts with ours.  In fact this
is the model in traditional physics, though physicists don't use
the word "scalar", they use words like zero point energy, and
quantum energy to describe these kind of forces which, some models
describe as being embedded in our normal three-dimensional space. 
But the point is that when this energy manifests in our three-
dimensional space it can have very profound effects.

MBR: So the old alchemical tradition of the philosopher's stone or
elixir that can transmute matter from base elements into gold, and
so on, may represent one model of manipulating scalar energies? 
Or represent the same sort of interface between two different
worlds, two different aspects of reality?

REIN:  Yes.  One way to look at it is in terms of esoteric
traditions in which there are descriptions of energy levels with
varying degrees of subtleness.  The physical body is the most
dense, and the electromagnetic field which is around the body is
slightly less dense or more refined, and then of course, we have
cosmic energy, or spiritual energy or God energy, which is the most
refined energy in the universe.  And ultimately, all transmutations
and healings occur from the spiritual energy.  This is really a
unified field theory, like so many scientists such as Einstein have
long been looking for.  It's just that the esoteric model has never
been considered scientific.  Well, the scalar energy may be the
bridge between the spiritual and the electromagnetic.  The
Buddhists talk about the "one primordial energy".  By tapping into
the scalar energy, we're one step closer to that ultimate source
of energy. 	

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