TUCoPS :: Scams :: gamble_w.txt

Rec.Gambling The Welcome file FAQ:

Archive-name: gambling-faq/welcome
URL: http://www.conjelco.com/faq/welcome.html

Welcome to Rec.Gambling!

This is the Welcome section of the rec.gambling Frequently Asked Questions
(FAQ) list.

Changes or additions to this section of the FAQ should be submitted to:

Page last modified: 2-1-95


Table of Contents

Section W: Welcome to Rec.Gambling!
W1 What is Rec.Gambling?
W2 What guidelines are there for posting to rec.gambling?

Section I: Information Sources
I1 Where can I find the latest FAQ list?
I2 What gambling information is available on the World Wide Web?
I3 Where is the gambling archive?
I4 Where can I get books about gambling?
I5 Where can I get discounts on gambling books/software?
I6 What other sources of gambling information are available?

Section H: History of Rec.Gambling
H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
H2 What is WRGPT?
H3 What is BARGE?
H4 What is IRC Poker?


Section W: Welcome to Rec.Gambling!


Q:W1 What is Rec.Gambling?
A:W1 (Steve Jacobs)

This newsgroup is devoted to discussion of all forms of gambling and wagering,
and the gaming industry. If you are new to rec.gambling, or you have not read
this message previously, please take a few moments to read this message, since
it may help you to find many different sources of information on gambling.

The purposes of this message are:

     To provide guidelines for posting to rec.gambling.

     To help you find the latest versions of the rec.gambling Frequently Asked
     Questions (FAQ) lists, which should be read before posting questions to

     To help you find other sources of information about gambling, such as the
     rec.gambling archive and the World Wide Web home page for rec.gambling.

     To provide some of the history of rec.gambling, and the various events
     associated with the newsgroup, including:

This part of the rec.gambling FAQ also provides some of the history of
rec.gambling and the various events accociated with the newsgroup, including:

     WRGPT (World Rec.Gambling Poker Tournament)
     BARGE (Big Annual Rec.Gambling Excursion)
     IRC Poker (online poker games against live opponents)


Q:W2 What guidelines are there for posting to rec.gambling?
A:W2 (Steve Jacobs)

If you have not already done so, we would strongly urge all readers of
rec.gambling (especially those who are new to USENET) to review the material in
the group news.announce.newusers. Although this group is primarily intended for
new users, it would be a good idea for anyone who posts messages to USENET
newsgroups to review this material periodically. Guidelines which generally
apply to USENET newsgroups will also apply to rec.gambling.

Use appropriate subject lines in order to target your message to those who are
most interested. Whenever practical, try to include one of the following
keywords (or something similar) in the "Subject:" line in order to make it
easier for readers who are only interested in one or two topics:


A few points of netiquette to keep in mind before posting to rec.gambling:

      Appropriate topics for this group: Gambling and wagering in all forms.
     Although the group tends to focus heavily on games which permit the player
     to gain an advantage over the house, many games which are "unbeatable" are
     discussed here as well. Trip reports from recent visits to casinos are
     also welcome, and enjoyed by many readers (especially those who are unable
     to get to the casinos as often as they might like). Discussions often
     include some heavy mathematical analysis as it relates to gambling
     (especially combinatorics, probability/statistics, and game theory), and
     results of computer analysis and/or simulation of specific games.

      Try to stay on topic as much as possible. If the discussion strays to
     non-gambling topics, please consider moving the topic to a more
     appropriate forum or to email. An occasional stray discussion is OK, just
     don't get carried away.

      Before posting, check the FAQ to see if your question is already answered
     there. If you are unwilling (or too lazy) to check the FAQ first, then
     don't be surprised if the only answer you receive is "see the FAQ".

      It is a good idea to read the entire FAQ at least once (even if you don't
     have specific questions), and to "lurk" for a while before posting to the
     group. If you are just stopping by to sell something, don't bother --
     we've seen the "MAKE MONEY FAST" post and other scams before, and we don't
     appreciate them. We're primarily here for discussion of gambling topics,
     so if you won't be around to hold up your end of the discussion, then it
     is very unlikely that your post is appropriate for this group. Messages of
     the form "gambling is evil/stupid/unhealthy" are completely unwelcome

      If there is any question about the legality of your message, then you
     probably shouldn't post it. Although it is perfectly OK to talk about
     gambling here, we cannot actually _gamble_ here, and we cannot post
     messages which could be construed as assisting someone to perform wagering
     services of any kind.

      Before posting, consider whether your post will be of general interest to
     the group. If your message is primarily targeted to one or two
     individuals, then use email instead.

      Advertisements are generally not welcome in USENET newsgroups, and
     rec.gambling is no exception. If you have something to sell, please use
     the appropriate .forsale newsgroup instead. However, some leeway may be
     permitted for software and books that are gambling related, especially if
     special discounts are offered to the rec.gambling community. Long ads are
     simply not appropriate. Frequent posting of ads is also not appropriate --
     once a month is often enough.


Section I: Information Sources


Q:I1 Where can I find the latest FAQ lists.
A:I1 (Steve Jacobs)

The FAQ files are posted in rec.gambling regularly, usually once every three
weeks. This welcome message is actually part of the FAQ for rec.gambling, but
the welcome message is posted once each week in order to provide a convenient
starting point for new readers, and to avoid posts by people who are looking
for the FAQ.

The multiple posted (ASCII) parts of the FAQ are archived at rtfm.mit.edu
( in the directory /pub/usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq. The files
are: welcome, general, casinos, blackjack, poker, craps, sports, and misc. To
obtain the files, first try ftp to rtfm.mit.edu and look under that directory.
If ftp does not work from your site, then try the mail server:

send email to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with

     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/welcome
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/general
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/casinos
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/blackjack
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/poker
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/craps
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/sports
     send usenet/news.answers/gambling-faq/misc

in the body of the message (leave the subject line empty). If you don't want
all of them, include only the lines of the ones you want. You must repeat the
path information for each file.


Q:I2 What gambling information is available on the World Wide Web?
A:I2 (Steve Jacobs)

Chuck Weinstock has created HTML versions of all sections of the rec.gambling
FAQ, and made them available at ConJelCo. The latest versions of these FAQ
lists may be obtained via the World Wide Web at:

     Reg.gambling FAQ http://www.conjelco.com/faq/

The following sites may also be of interest to gamblers:

     ConJelCo Home Page http://www.conjelco.com/
     Las Vegas Advisor http://www.infi.net/vegas/lva/
     Maryland Casinos http://www.jaeger.com/~erich/marygamb.html
     Virtual Las Vegas http://www.infi.net/vegas/vlv/
     Vegas.com Home Page http://www.vegas.com/
     Reno Hilton http://www.sierra.net/Hilton/Reno/


Q:I3 Where is the gambling archive?
A:I3 (Michael Hall)

The gambling archive is intended to store stuff *useful* to rec.gamblers, like
the FAQ lists, blackjack card-counting information, poker statistics, etc. It
is not intended at this time to store all the daily drivel of rec.gambling.

The archive is accessible via anonymous ftp to ftp.csua.berkeley.edu
( (Type "ftp ftp.csua.berkeley.edu" or "ftp" and
then "anonymous" when it asks for the name, followed by your email address when
it asks for the password. Then "cd pub/rec.gambling".)

If you have some things you would like to contribute to the archive, contact


Q:I4 Where can I get books about gambling?
A:I4 (Steve Jacobs, Mike Northam)

Gambler's Book Club has a vast selection of books on topics related to
gambling. They are located at 630 South 11th Street in Las Vegas.

  Gambler's Book Club
  Box 4115
  Las Vegas, NV 89127
  (702) 382-7555
  (702) 382-7594 (FAX)
  (800) 634-6243 (orders only)

  Gamblers Bookstore
  99 N. Virginia St.
  Reno, NV  89501
  (800) 748-5797


Q:I5 Where can I get discounts on gambling books/software?
A:I5 (Chuck Weinstock)

One of our rec.gamblers (Chuck Weinstock) has established relationships with
publishers of gambling books, newsletters, videos, and software and offers
their products at a discount to rec.gamblers. Orders must be placed through
Chuck Weinstock (weinstock@conjelco.com). Contact him for a list of what is
available, and ordering information, or look for the ConJelCo Home Page at
http://www.conjelco.com on the World Wide Web.

Q:I6 What other sources of gambling information are available?
A:I6 (Martin Veneroso, John Murphy, Steve Jacobs)

Horse Racing

     There is a mailing list for discussion of horse racing and handicapping.
     If you are interested in joining us, send a note to
     derby-request@inslab.uky.edu and be sure to include an Internet email
     address (i.e., a "@" address.).

Bay Area Poker List

     The ba-poker mailing list is just a bunch of folks, mostly located in the
     San Francisco Bay Area, who like to read about poker as it is played in
     the Bay Area, and a few who like to write about it. We discuss both home
     and commercial (card room) poker, including who's doing what where, a
     smidgen of strategy, a few tall tales, and very little flaming (although a
     couple of battles have broken out in the past).

     A fair estimate of the traffic probably would be ten or twenty messages a
     week, but they tend to be clumped around someone raising an issue. The
     list as gone a couple of weeks without distributing any messages, although
     that is becoming more rare as the number of subscribers climbs slowly --
     we have about 150 now.

     To subscribe, send a message to ba-poker-request@netcom.com,, with a
     message body of:

     SUBSCRIBE ba-poker-list

     -- you can send any kind of request to the same address, and if the server
     doesn't understand it the message gets sent on to the list owner,
     slick@netcom.com (Martin Veneroso).

Colorado Gaming Mailing List

     Send email to ccbh-request@hpesjlm.fc.hp.com to join a mailing list for
     gaming in Colorado.


     Questions about hotels and restaurants are often posted to rec.gambling.
     Similar information about Las Vegas can be found in the newsgroup


Section H: History of Rec.Gambling


Q:H1 A brief history of rec.gambling.
A:H1 (Matt Wilding, Steve Jacobs)

How did rec.gambling get started?

     alt.gambling began in August, 1989. It had plenty of traffic, so a
     newsgroup election for rec.gambling was held. rec.gambling passed
     189-41. The election results were announced on September 23, 1989,
     and the group created one week later.

During the early years (roughly 1990 and 1991), blackjack and craps were
probably the most popular topics on rec.gambling. This was before there was a
FAQ, and much of the focus was on card counting and computer simulations of
blackjack games. Flame wars between blackjack players and craps players were
popular. There was virtually no discussion of poker during this time. The first
BARGE took place in Aug. 1991 (before it was ever called BARGE), and the
Presto!/Irwin legend emerged at that time. The Frank Irwin Memorial Commode
Ceremony also came from this BARGE trip. There were perhaps a dozen
rec.gamblers at the first BARGE. The first rec.gambling FAQ was created late in

The first WRGPT was launched in early 1992, with Will Hyde acting as dealer.
Poker discussions gained in popularity, partly as a result of this tournament.
Traffic on rec.gambling probably averaged about 10 to 20 posts per day during
this time.

[This section could use a lot of work -- any volunteers?]


Q:H2 What is WRGPT?
A:H2 (Steve Jacobs)

WRGPT stands for "World Rec.Gambling Poker Tournament". This is an annual poker
tournament played by email. The tournament usually begins in the fall, and
usually lasts many months, to the complete aggravation of some of the players.

WRGPT1 started early in 1992 with 30 players. WRGPT1 was dealt by hand, with
Will Hyde devoting much of his time to the task. Steve Jacobs won the
tournament by eliminating Ken Butler and Bharat Rao on the last hand with K-T

WRGPT2 attracted about 130 players, and began in the fall of 1992. This
tournament, and those that followed, were dealt by Ron Duursma's excellent
email poker server. Ed Baker took first place in this event, coming from behind
to eliminate Jeff Jennings. Roy Hashimoto was 3rd.

WRGPT3 attracted about 200 players, and began in the fall of 1993. Roy
Hashimoto won this event, becoming the second rec.gambler to win both WRGPT and
BARGE titles. [Who took 2nd and 3rd?]

WRGPT4 attracted 376 players, and is currently in progress (Jan. 1995).


Q:H3 What is BARGE?
A:H3 (Steve Jacobs)

[This is pretty rough folks, anyone with fond BARGE memories? If so, please
send them in for inclusion in the r.g history FAQ. My apologies if I've left
out important details, or gotten some fact fixed up here.]

BARGE stands for "Big August Rec.Gambling Excursion". This is the annual
rec.gambling gathering, so far always in August (can you imagine a worse time
to go to Vegas?), but if we go some other month we can change the "August" to
"Annual" in order to preserve the acronym.

The first BARGE consisted of maybe a dozen people, mostly in Vegas to attend
SIGGRAPH '91 (well, at least that's how they got their companies to pay the
airfare). We met at the Frontier for breakfast, and at Gambler's Book Club to
check out the latest periodicals. Several rec.gamblers pitched in to purchase a
book to help launch Michael Hall's blackjack career.

BARGE 2 had more attendees, about 20 in all, and included meetings at the
Frontier, GBC, and a live poker tournament held in a hotel room. The main
gathering took place at the Frontier coffee shop, where about a dozen
rec.gamblers met for a midnight meal (thanks, Edmund). In keeping with
rec.gambling tradition, Steve Jacobs won the first live BARGE poker tournament,
becoming the first rec.gambler to win both an WRGPT event and a BARGE event.

BARGE 3 had about 30 attendees, of which about 20 participated in the live
poker tournament held at the Rio. Special chips were created to commemorate
BARGE 3, and were sold through rec.gambling to raise a prize fund (including a
set of 300 chips as a trophy) for the winner of the tournament. Roy Hashimoto,
who flew to Vegas especially for the tournament, took first place. Each
attendee at BARGE 3 received a special limited edition purple BARGE chip, which
have becoming highly prized collectors items.

BARGE 4 had about 90 attendees, of which 60 paid entry fees in advance for the
live poker tournament at the Luxor. A calcutta was held the night before to
auction off players from the poker tournament. Roy Hashimoto designed some
fabulous poker chips for the BARGE 4 trophy, which went to Dave Hughes. Cash
prizes were paid for 1st through 6th place, with teddy bears going to Jeff
Jennings for placing 7th and to (who? I forgot! Let me know so we can embarrass
him...) for being the first player to bust out of the tournament. This year a
live blackjack tournament was added to the agenda, attracting about 30 players
and many spectators to a high roller suite somewhere on the world famous Las
Vegas Strip. [Who won the BJ tournament? Who bought Dave Hughes to win the
Calcutta?] An informal gathering for pot-limit Texas Hold'em was held later at
the Luxor, and a bachelor party was held for Steve "Bozo" Blackstock at a
location which might cause him undo grief if it were revealed here.

The early BARGE trips were mostly spontaneous events, with little advance
planning and consequently little advance notice, so if you couldn't drop
everything and fly to Vegas then you missed out. But, such spontaneity isn't
too practical for large groups, so now we try to plan things a bit more. An
email list has been created to help those interested in BARGE to plan for the
trip. To be added to the mailing list, send email to BARGE-request@vmark.com.
Messages to the mailing list itself should be sent to BARGE@vmark.com.


Q:H4 What is IRC Poker?
A:H4 (Steve Jacobs)

IRC poker is a real-time network poker game that allows people from around the
world to play poker with each other via the internet. The stakes are imaginary
"etherbucks". For more information about IRC Poker, see the poker section of
the rec.gambling FAQ.

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